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Tom Meschery: A black-robed, full-bearded priest waving crosses over me, his breath so garlic I will see that field filled with Russian peasants. His bed side prayers so mournful, they will force me back to old beliefs.

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Unreligioned, this would be my choice: to die orthodox. For whatever it's worth, I'll take my chances with my parents' grace. Morton Marcus: That was Tom Meschery, the famous NBA

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basketball player turned poet, who will be our special guest tonight, and talk about the saga that has been his life. Hello, everybody, this is Mort Marcus and this is the Poetry Show. And tonight a very, very special guest, the famed NBA

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basketball player playing with the Philadelphia and then San Francisco Warriors for years, finally winding up his career with the Seattle SuperSonics, Tom Meschery, called by Sports Illustrated a renaissance man, though I'm sure he would blush

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to hear that. We will hear about his life, we will hear about what led him to poetry. Tom, welcome to the Poetry Show. Tom Meschery: Thank you, Morton. I'm pleased to be here. Morton Marcus: Great. Why don't you tell us some of this

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incredible biography about your parents, about history, and just what happened, if you can condense this Tolstoyian saga? Tom Meschery: How long do you have? You got three or four hours on this show, Mort?

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Morton Marcus: Well, it depends on whether you want to read your poetry or not. Tom Meschery: Okay, well, I'll try and condense it as much as I can. In fact, in many ways, my background has a lot to do with

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why I got interested in poetry in the first place. I'm a Russian immigrant. My mother, my sister, and I came to the United States after the Second World War. Morton Marcus: Well tell us about, you know, what happened

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in Russia with your dad and your mom? Tom Meschery: My parents were Russians of- white Russians. My mother was part of the nobility that was part of the Czarist regime in Russia prior to 1917. My father was in the military

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academy in Russia. When the- my grandfather was a member of the Duma, which was the equivalent of the senate here in the United States, from his province in Samara. They were an old aristocratic family, the Lvoffs on my father's side, the

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Tolstoys on my mother's side, which is a very famous literary name, my cousin, great grand cousin on my mother's side, the maternal side, was Aleksey Tolstoy, the famous Russian poet, who was a distant cousin of old, "War and Peace,"

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himself. Whom my grandmother just hated it, she hated Leo. Yeah, she thought he was a Mason and an agnostic and an atheist and everything, kicked him out of the house, as a matter of fact, one time as he- when he came to visit. So when the

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revolution occurred, when the 1917 revolution occurred and Lenin and Trotsky began to take over Russia and brought about the emergence of the Soviet Union, my parents like a lot of the white- what they called White Russians, as opposed to

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Red Russians, fled. Many of them who could have gotten out early, left and went to Paris or- Morton Marcus: Your father fought first for the whites? Tom Meschery: My father fought yeah, he fought in the White

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ussian army under Admiral Kolcha on the Western Front. And th n of course, Trotsky's armies and guerrillas began to force hem back, and further back east cross Siberia until they were f nally defeated. Most of the Ru sians who escaped the Soviet

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Union at that time escape east into China, to the city o Harbin in northern China in Man huria. As many as three hundre thousand lived -- white Russia s lived in Harbin at that time, hey had their own church s, their own grocery stores

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their own society. And that's where I- my sister and I were b rn. My mother met my father in Harbin, renewed an old acquai tance that they had in Russia I was born in- my sister was bo n 1936, I was born in 1938. nd we were on our way to- actua

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ly to America, and right befo e the First World War. Dece ber, my father, had already left He was the first to get a visa he came in right after I was orn to set up a household in the United States and prepare fo us to follow him. Just as we

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ere about to do that, the Se ond World War broke out. An my mother and sister and I ere taken to a concentration cam in Japan. And we spent the dura ion of that war in Tokyo n a concentration camp. We wer n't terribly mistreated, but I m

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an, there wasn't a lot of food and so on. It wasn't wonder ul, wasn't idyllic by any stretc of the imaginat Morton Marcus: But you weren't abused? Tom Meschery: We weren't abused, no. And they were very

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civilized, the Japanese in Tokyo, very different from the Philippines and China, various other places where the army was in control. This was sort of civilian control, concentration camp, women and children only. So the only real problem we ever

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had was toward the end of the war, when the Americans bombed night and day and our concentration camp was hit. Number of times, we had to flee, we slept on the streets in Tokyo until the war was over, probably about a month on the streets.

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That was very, very dire. Morton Marcus: Tom, you're seven years old now, six, seven years- Tom Meschery: I was, yeah, I was six going on seven, yeah. And then you know, finally the war came to the end with Hiroshima

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and Nagasaki, and we, via the Red Cross, managed via the Philippines and Hawaii, managed finally to get back to San Francisco, where my father was waiting for us on the wharf as the boat came in under the Golden Gate. And I didn't even

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recognize my father, I had no idea what he looked like. And so it was very, very interesting. We're all dressed in army fatigues with DP on our sleeves, which stood for displaced persons. So we were completely displaced. And that was sort of

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the beginning of my American- the American part of my life. Morton Marcus: Not speaking a word of English. Tom Meschery: Not any, not- well, I spoke a little bit of English. There were American and English missionaries in the camp

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so I knew some English, I wasn't completely without it. But my- the language I spoke primarily was Russian, my sister and I, my mother and father, we spoke Russian to each other. And, of course, I, you know, after a while, I went to elementary

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school and was, you know, taunted by American children and I wore short sleeves, you know, short pants and you know, sort of European immigrant looking guy and I, you know, I learned English very quickly. I didn't want to be singled out as a

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foreigner and I made up my mind that I was going to learn English and I refused, actually, I refused to speak Russian from about second grade on, I just wouldn't do it. I regret that now, as a matter of fact, but I became proficient very, very

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quickly, immersion, they call that. Morton Marcus: And then you went to high school, and actually before you went to high school you were discovered in a recreation area because you had started to grow very, very tall.

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Tom Meschery: Very quickly, right. And I became very big and a lot of the taunting, by the way Mort, about my being an immigrant stopped about that time. I wonder why. [Laughs] Morton Marcus: [Laughs] Because Tom is not only tall, people, he

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is broad. Tom Meschery: But yes, yeah, I became very tall very quickly. I had a great growth spurt between my seventh grade and my eighth grade and I was taken under the wing of our playground director,

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a fellow named Cappy Lavin, those people in San Francisco probably know that name. He was a great guard for the University of San Francisco at that time, and had a part time job as a playground director at Grant Grammar School where I was going

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to school and he taught me how to play basketball. I took to it right away. I loved basketball. It was, I mean, immediately, I realized that the way to become an American was to become an athlete. I just knew that instinctively.

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Morton Marcus: Fascinating. Fascinating. Tom Meschery: That's the way to do it. I mean, if you're going to be an immigrant, you know, be a football player, be a baseball player, be a basketball player, don't be a soccer player,

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because the Europeans like it. But as I realized that and I became very good at it very quickly, I was a good athlete and coordinated and tall, and so it came very naturally to me. And I loved it.

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Morton Marcus: You were obviously All-City. Were you All-State as- All American? Tom Meschery: Oh, yeah, very, very quickly. Morton Marcus: High school All-American?

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Tom Meschery: I just took to it and I loved it. And I became a high school, All-American at Lowell High School. Scholarship, St. Mary's College, I became an a high school college All-American. I was actually a AAU All-American with the Olymp

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c club, with whom I played durin the offseasons and in colle e, during college, and then I wa drafted, first round draft cho ce, by the Philadelphia Wa riors in 1961. Morton Marcus: And tell us one or two of your more famous

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teammates. Tom Meschery: Well, Wilt Chamberlain, back in those days, and that was the year, it was a very fortunate time for me, because historically I was lucky enough to play -- that was my

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rookie year -- lucky enough to play in the game in Hershey, Pennsylvania in the fall, I guess it was November, late November- And he scored in Hershey, Pennsylvania, where Wilt scored that unbelievable hundred points.

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Morton Marcus: Yeah. Tom Meschery: And I am the third highest score in that game. Al Attles is second with sixteen and I scored fifteen, nobody has scored anything, I don't think.

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Morton Marcus: Well, and here's something you don't think I know and you may not even remember, that first year, you were the third highest score on the team. Tom Meschery: I was, yeah, I had a good year, I had a really good

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year. And unfortunately, I had to go in the army for a while and I broke my arm in the army. And a very famous poet, by the way, did that. Morton Marcus: Mhm.

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Tom Meschery: Stephen Dunn. Morton Marcus: Well, I might as well say that, yes. This is- Stephen Dunn is now accused here of interrupting one of the great careers in professional sports.

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Tom Meschery: And we don't care if he's a great poet. Morton Marcus: No, God, no, this is the important stuff. And this was of course, in a game when you were in the military. Tom Meschery: In the military, yeah, it was sort of an

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intersport, you know, contest and he was doing his service obligation and then, just one fourth and I was doing- Morton Marcus: You should have been in the Air Force, we treated everyone with much more respect.

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Tom Meschery: That's right, but I couldn't get off the ground, Mort. Morton Marcus: Well, I've seen your jump shot and I don't agree.

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Tom Meschery: You couldn't put a piece of paper under my shoes, I was not a leaper. And I'm the quintessential white guy who can't jump. Morton Marcus: Okay, so you have this- this great career. I mean,

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you are with, I don't know what, maybe twenty-five other people, considered one of the great San Francisco athletes, and you are enshrined all over the city in brass, platinum- Tom Meschery: You're going to make me blush.

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Morton Marcus: It's true, it's true. The career comes to an end, though, it's not that easy because you're going to coach, you know, and things like that. Tom Meschery: I was a terrible coach, by the way, awful. I

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mean, they should just- you know, the minute I put on my coach's mantle they just should have shot me and put me out of my misery. Morton Marcus: But anyway, somewhere along this line, you

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become not only interested in poetry but obsessed with it. So why don't you tell us how that happened? Tom Meschery: Well, first of all, my father, who was a very big, strong fellow, very quiet, taciturn guy, very difficult to

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have a relationship with him. He would read poetry, he would read all of the old Russian epic poems, you know- Morton Marcus: Medieval stuff. Tom Meschery: All the medieval stuff. [Speaks Russian] You

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know? Morton Marcus: Best I've ever heard it read. Tom Meschery: And it was that, the lays of the bogatyrs, the Cossacks who- who protected th [unidentified]'s border, you kn

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w, and it says- and then [u identified] the prince is pu ting putting old Ily Muromets, that's one of the ogatyrs, yeah, he's putting h m out to pasture and then lya Muromets, you know, is j st full of disdain and, you k

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ow, and he's telling, well, w 'll look [unidentified]. After e, we'll see what's going to appen, [unidentified], how ou're going to [unidentified], ow are you going to manage ithout old Ilya, right? And my ather would do this, and he w

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uld weep. And I realized very arly on when- can, you know, since I had learned in ele entary school, and in high sc ool that poetry was sort of th domain of women, the sentimenta stuff, terrible stuff, some of it, but for some reason English

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teachers seemed to move poetry over to the, to the female sid of the classes, but I- and a l t of the boys just refused t participate in high school in early years in poetry because they thought it was feminine. ut I knew differently, I

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knew that my father, big, s rong warrior, very difficult man, but he would weep when he r cited these very lyrical, rhyme poems, beautiful poems, and he as a very deep voice, he was basso profundo. And so I knew ifferently, so I was always, yo

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know, I was always, you kn w, I always admired poetry I always liked the way it sou ded and- but of course, I let t go for a while I, you know, f rgot about it because I was oncentrating on sports and bas etball.

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And actually, when I was playing with the Seattle Sonics, I got back into it, I got back into poetry. I was playing poker with a couple of college professors, and a fellow who had come to the University of Washington to take the Theodore Roethke Chair for a

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year, and his name was Mark Strand, poet laureate of the United States for a couple years, wonderful guy, many- very generous towards me. And we would play poker. He was a basketball fan, like he came to the games. And I told him how

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interested I was in poetry, and he said, "Well, sit in one of my classes and, you know, you don't have to pay, just come in and sit in." And I had actually, by that time, I had written a book of poetry, published by Saturday Review Press, all about

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basketball. It was the four letter word, it was terrible, it was really bad poetry, but you know, it was- it was bad Carl Sandburg was what it was. It wasn't very good, you know, but I didn't know any different, you know, I didn't know- you know,

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but I love poetry. I just like the way- I like the way poetry operates. It doesn't- you don't have to do an awful lot of explaining, you know, and then it doesn't require- you know, the images themselves talk for themselves so I love that part

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of poetry. And I so I always loved it, even even though it's bad poetry, I liked it. But Mark said, come sit in my classes. I said, okay, that's fine and I'd love to do that. And so I sat in and that was the first time I actually was exposed to modern,

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to contemporary poetry and what it really was. Not the sort of classical literary poetry that I had studied in high school or I had- you know, was asked to learn, you know, Keats, Shakespeare, you know, etc. Wonderful poetry, of course, but

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I didn't know any; I really was not educated in poetry. And it was at that point that I decided I was truly interested in poetry. And later, after my one year as a coach, after I had retired in

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North Carolina, I coached the North Carolina Cougars in the ABA, I quit. I was, like I said, I was a terrible coach, you know. And the team didn't do very well and then my ego was too, you know, hurt. And so I decided I wanted to get out, I

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wanted to quit. And I remember having dinner with Mark up in New York, and he said, "Look, you know, granted your poems, you know, are not that good, but there's some potential there, you know? Why don't you submit some of them?" And he helped me

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pick out the ones that had the most potential and send them to Iowa, to the Iowa Writers Workshop, which is very, very well known. And you were there Mort, you studied in Iowa at the Writers Workshop, and we have that in common, and a lot more

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in common actually. But- Morton Marcus: Yes, little brother. Tom Meschery: Yes, you're a basketball player, don't let anybody on the airways forget about that. All right.

00:19:59.990 - 00:20:15.410

Morton Marcus: We are Russians. We are Russians [cross talk]. Tom Meschery: All right. And so I was accepted to the Iowa Writers Workshop. I had no idea what I was in for. And my wife, Joanne, and I and the kids went to Iowa City; we bought a little

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house and I stayed there for two years and learned about poetry and then got my Masters of Fine Arts. And from then on, I mean, I went back into coaching for two years in Portland. And then I got out of it-

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Morton Marcus: And that's where we met each other when I was with- Tom Meschery: That's right, that's right. You were doing a reading and Peter Sears introduced me to you, Peter

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Sears, the poet. Morton Marcus: I thought it was Vern? Tom Meschery: And Vern Rutsala was there, right. And we hit it off right away.

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Morton Marcus: Right away. Tom Meschery: Yeah, right away. And I mean, so it was great fun meeting you and- and after Portland, then I retired completely from basketball, and went down to Truckee, moved the

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family, down in Truckee we owned a bookstore there, and did that for about four or five years. And then we starved to death, you know, independent bookstore, mind you. Yeah, so we were- we had some troubles so I had to get out of that business and get

00:21:09.300 - 00:21:23.070

into something that really had a good paycheck, a really reasonable paycheck. And so I got into teaching English, and I just retired last year after twenty years of teaching Advanced Placement English at Reno High School.

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Morton Marcus: And well, you also taught some lower classes. Tom Meschery: I started out teaching at risk kids, just very difficult young kids and- who are sort of anti-education. And so I just spent five years doing that and I almost went insane. I

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loved it in many ways, but I almost went insane. I thought I was Eeyore like in, you know, in Winnie the Pooh, with that black cloud over my head, you know. So I had to get out of that and they were generous enough to put me in an AP class so that the

00:21:55.690 - 00:22:08.590

last fifteen years of my career I taught very, very fine, brilliant, brilliant young people and it was a pleasure. Morton Marcus: Well, I mean, that's a tremendous life. And, you know, that it ends in education, I've known for years

00:22:08.800 - 00:22:24.550

how dedicated you were to teaching, I mean, and to your students. Tom then has finally collected his poems, which is a book that came out- what are we talking- we're talking seven years now? And this is called, "Nothing We Lose Can Be

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Replaced." And it is published by the Black Rock Player Press, which is really the University of Nevada, right? Tom Meschery: The University of Nevada, and it's a letterpress, yeah, so it's a beautiful.

00:22:35.500 - 00:22:43.960

Morton Marcus: Yeah. Tom Meschery: They did a really nice job. I'm, you know, I'm really pleased, you know? You're not going to make any money writing poetry, so what you look for is a good product and a good

00:22:43.960 - 00:22:47.970

book- Morton Marcus: And what is- Tom Meschery: They did a nice job. Morton Marcus: One of the things that's interesting about the

00:22:47.970 - 00:22:56.430

structure of it, we'll just say that briefly is, it's in three sections. Tom Meschery: Right. Morton Marcus: The first is about being Russian and his

00:22:56.430 - 00:23:12.870

family. The second are remembered anecdotes about the people he played basketball with. And finally, the last section is about teaching, so it really is a book in many ways that covers your life. It's really like an autobiography.

00:23:13.350 - 00:23:22.200

Tom Meschery: I was hoping to- I was hoping that that's the way it would turn out, you know, and to some extent, I think it was pretty successful. Morton Marcus: Oh, yeah, I love it, can you-

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Tom Meschery: Beside that, Mort, this book would have not h Morton Marcus: Thank you. But- it's nice of you, but if I ever ppened without you. Tom Meschery: I want to make sure you edited it, you

00:23:28.610 - 00:23:43.220

criticized it, and then I was able to actually- I mean, it would have been probably a couple of times, you know, a couple of pages longer, because you really made some wonderful suggestions about eliminating, you know, lines that didn't

00:23:43.280 - 00:23:55.220

deserve- you know, didn't belong there, and then it was terrific. drove against you in a game, you still would show me no mercy, right? Tom Meschery: Absolutely, not at all, you would be on the ground.

00:23:57.980 - 00:24:07.870

[Laughs] Morton Marcus: Anyway, let's hear some of the Russian poems and the way this show goes -- we got like five minutes -- and we'll hear a little of those poems, we'll take a break, come

00:24:07.870 - 00:24:19.540

back, make some announcements, then we'll read those poems. And we will hear about some other poets who have influenced Tom down through the years. And it was very hard for him to choose that because Tom is one of the most well read people I know.

00:24:19.540 - 00:24:32.430

And please, just choose the poem, one or two poems you want to start? Tom Meschery: Well, the first section that has to do with my Russian background. I thought that I would -- although it's

00:24:32.430 - 00:24:56.790

not quite as lyrical -- I thought I would read poems that I sort of culled from letters written by my mother's cousin, Nikolai Tolstoy, and he was part of the Austrian front, and he wrote my mother, and the title of the poem is, "Four Letters

00:24:56.790 - 00:25:15.840

From Nikolai Tolstoy, From the Austrian Front to His Cousin, Maria Vladimirovna Lvoff." And they're divided by dates when the letters were sent, arrived and were mailed, and they're narrative, they're very narrative. And I'm not sure if

00:25:16.350 - 00:25:41.460

there should be- there are some names that are very Russian names, Preobrazhensky Guards is a very famous Russian battalion. I don't think there's- "O lente, lente, currite, noctis equi!" is "Run slowly horses of the night." It comes from Faust,

00:25:42.000 - 00:25:57.480

that's in the third section, and probably people wouldn't understand what that means since it's in Russian. I think everything else I think is probably self-explanatory. SEPTEMBER 2ND, 1914

00:25:57.960 - 00:26:17.340

Arrived on furlough just in time to attend the ball Countess Kleinmichel gave for the beau monde of St. Petersburg. Ladies with hair dyed blue waltzed with half naked cavemen. What buffoons. Sadly, I saw princess Xenia Alexandrovna among them

00:26:17.340 - 00:26:35.310

with her beautiful daughter. Later, women dressed as fish swam on the floor over yards of blue satin, while men with fish nets tried to catch them. Ma chère cousine, this war has turned us into [unidentified]. Remember, Lieutenant Chenyaski

00:26:35.490 - 00:26:50.310

of the Preobrazhensky Guards? Only three days before, I saw an Austrian officer run past him as he lay wounded on the ground and fire a bullet into his neck. SEPTEMBER 13TH, 1914

00:26:50.960 - 00:27:07.250

Tomorrow, I'm told we'll try to cross the River San. Our losses will be great. The Austrians have dug their trenches and only bayonets will carry the day. I know I'm going to die. Our poor peasant soldiers shake their heads and make the sign of the

00:27:07.250 - 00:27:22.760

cross from shoulder to shoulder, so slowly that by the time they finish, battles could be won or lost. I must close because it's getting dark and I have no candle. OCTOBER 29TH, 1914

00:27:23.060 - 00:27:40.520

Ma chère cousine, imagine I'm running, waving my saber above my head, setting a good example for my troops. I keep looking back and yelling at them to keep up. To my right, a cavalry charge. I'm happy I didn't join the cavalry, they have so much

00:27:40.520 - 00:27:57.980

farther to fall before they die. What did Faustus say? "Oh lente, lente currite, noctis equi," just as he was about to lose his soul. The horses are perfectly trained, charging on, even without their riders. One horse, bless him, has destroyed a

00:27:57.980 - 00:28:14.860

machine gun all by himself. As I run toward the crazed beast, I see he's killing the same man more than twice. FEBRUARY 20TH, 1915 We won the battle, General Brusilov himself thanked me. He

00:28:14.860 - 00:28:32.920

never once mentioned the blood on my forehead, [inidentified]. My men cheered as he pinned the St. George Cross on my chest. Papa will be delighted. After the ceremony, I found Captain Markoff and Lieutenant Gagarin You remember the young prince? I

00:28:32.920 - 00:28:45.520

laid down beside them and pulled their bodies over me like blankets. Morton Marcus: Yeah, that gives you a piece of history, that gives you a piece of history. And that of course is before the

00:28:45.640 - 00:28:54.850

revolution, that's just World War I. Tom Meschery: That's World War I. Morton Marcus: Yeah, World War I on the Eastern Front. Tom Meschery: And then the basketball section, there's-

00:28:54.850 - 00:29:00.970

Morton Marcus: Oh, we got plenty of time, so that we can do more Russian stuff. Tom Meschery: All right. Morton Marcus: Now would be a great time to take a break. And

00:29:01.390 - 00:30:39.200

we will take a short musical break and then I will be back with some announcements. Morton Marcus: And this is KUSP 88.9 on your dial. Announcements: the board of directors of KUSP in the

00:30:39.200 - 00:30:58.430

Pataphysical Broadcasting Foundation meets monthly and the public is invited to attend. This month, the board meets Monday evening, September 25th beginning at 6pm at the KUSP studios at 203 Eighth Avenue in Santa Cruz. That's this Monday,

00:30:58.430 - 00:31:25.520

tomorrow night at 6pm, at the KUSP Studios, 203 Eighth Avenue in Santa Cruz. Call the station during business hours for more information. Our numbers are 476-2800, 476-2800 or 800-655-5877, that's 800-655-5877. The very next

00:31:25.520 - 00:31:42.890

night, the 26th, at the Bookshop Santa Cruz at 7:30, a really rare treat, the coming out of Robert Sward's book, "God Is In The Cracks," but instead of just being a book signing and a reading by Robert, which certainly is good enough, what

00:31:42.890 - 00:32:08.960

has happened is Robert is putting on a dramatic reading of these wonderful dialogues between he and his father, in which some of the best known poets in this district such as David Swanger and several others will be reading, and it will be

00:32:08.960 - 00:32:27.380

a dramatic production. That is at 7:30 this Tuesday, the 26th of September at Bookshop Santa Cruz in Santa Cruz, and it is a celebration and a book signing of, "God Is In The Cracks." It will be a special dramatic rendering of these wonderful

00:32:27.680 - 00:32:41.920

comic and profound dialogues that Robert Sward has been writing for the last five years. Don't miss it. I sure as heck will be there and I'm really looking forward to it. Tonight on the Poetry Show, we are talking with Tom Maderas-

00:32:42.010 - 00:33:02.620

Tom Maderas! Tom Meschery. And we have just picked up his poetry after hearing about this amazing life he has led. And we are talking about poems in the first section of his book, which is, "Nothing We Lose Can Be Replaced," and it is poems about

00:33:02.620 - 00:33:18.820

his Russian background. So Tom, take it away. Tom Meschery: I'm going to read another poem entitled, Mort, entitled, "Letter From St. Petersburg," which is again based on a letter that my -- it's on page 13 -- and it it's

00:33:18.820 - 00:33:39.730

based very loosely on a letter that my grandfather, who was the Ober-Procurator of the Holy Synod for- which means he was the lay head of the Russian church in the first and second Duma in Russia in 1916, 1917.

00:33:39.880 - 00:33:47.380

Morton Marcus: Right, and for people who just came in, that's the Russian Senate. Tom Meschery: That's the Russian Senate, right. Morton Marcus: Actually founded by the Tsar after the 1905

00:33:47.530 - 00:33:53.650

revolt, right? Tom Meschery: Pardon me? Morton Marcus: The Duma actually came about [cross talk] Tom Meschery: It came right after 1905, yeah, there was

00:33:54.430 - 00:34:00.410

reforms taking place. Of course, they didn't really take. Morton Marcus: Yeah. Tom Meschery: That's why- Morton Marcus: It was too late. It was little, too soon. Too

00:34:00.410 - 00:34:12.220

little, too late. Tom Meschery: And, but my grandfather was probably one of the tallest men in Russia, I think I get my height from him. He was very close to seven feet, he might have even been seven

00:34:12.220 - 00:34:38.080

feet. Interesting guy and very religious and this is based very loosely on a letter that he wrote to his wife, and I'm talking to, in this poem, Melitsa, who is my sister. She's now known as Ann, but back then when we were growing up she was

00:34:38.080 - 00:34:53.500

known by her Russian name Melitsa. And the title of the poem was, "Letter From St. Petersburg," and it's dedicated to Max Crawford, he was a fiction writer and- from Montana and wrote a very long, long book called, "Red and the White,"

00:34:53.650 - 00:35:10.240

very interested in Russian history and he was very- I gave him a lot of our letters to look at and photocopy and he used them in his book. So I dedicated this poem to Max: Melitsa, I am reading a letter dated 1917, written by our

00:35:10.240 - 00:35:27.160

grandfather Senator Lvoff to his wife because a friend called asking me for help collecting facts for his book about the revolution to be called "Red and White." It will say plenty about survival under dreadful conditions. Our grandfather is

00:35:27.160 - 00:35:43.570

complaining all the best families are leaving Russia. "Every day another door opens and closes," his exact words, "soon there will be no one." "Outside," he says, "the workers are warming their hands over blazing furniture and icons are

00:35:43.570 - 00:35:58.600

going up in smoke." Which is exactly what happened by the way, Mort, then during the revolution in the streets and when the Bolsheviks took over, they threw out furniture, they threw out icons out of the

00:35:58.600 - 00:36:17.830

homes of the aristocrats, piled them up, and then- on the streets and lit fires, and lit them on fire. And beautiful furniture, beautiful icons, you know, I'm not necessarily Czarist or an aristocrat, but I do- I do bemoan the destruction

00:36:17.830 - 00:36:25.660

of those- particularly those icons, so many were so beautiful. Morton Marcus: Yeah. Read another poem from the Russian section.

00:36:25.660 - 00:36:54.250

Tom Meschery: Another Russian section poem, okay. Well, this is a little bit more lyrical. There's a- it's called, "Russian Easter," and on page eight. And there is a section on- in Russian that reads [in Russian] and it means, "Holy Ghost, Holy

00:36:54.250 - 00:37:19.010

Ghost, pray for us." The poem begins: Incense and all those San Francisco Saints on their knees, some rising, some standing, erect and holy. From the choir overhead, my father's reluctant base chants [in Russian] My

00:37:19.010 - 00:37:38.060

mother's fingers sign the Trinity across herself, shoulder to shoulder, forehead to floor. These broad and sweeping flourishes touch only the air around her body. A woman bears her body like a cross from womb to birth, my thirteen pound

00:37:38.060 - 00:37:57.560

breech, and all such deliveries from evil. Oh Lord, deliver me from such holiness or soon I'll join the prone supplicants and the kneeling babushkas. At last outside when we light candles from flames rising from our cupped hands and following the

00:37:57.560 - 00:38:15.050

procession three times circling the church, Mother of God, we will enter as we always have into your body of Christ, father and I, as we did tonight, and all those Easter Sundays together ever after.

00:38:17.300 - 00:38:42.860

Morton Marcus: Yes, maybe one more from this section? Tom Meschery: You bet. Well, there's a short one which is entitled, "The Russian Center." Now, let me see, well, maybe we'll do, "Aunts." My aunt was- there were a couple of aunts

00:38:42.860 - 00:38:57.500

that managed to get to San Francisco, quite a few folks managed to get to San Francisco, White Russians, very large Russian, White Russian community, especially in the Richmond district [cross talk] around First Avenue all the way

00:38:57.500 - 00:39:05.360

out to 17th, as a matter of fact, where that beautiful cathedral is on 17th and Geary. Morton Marcus: Where I spent many Russian Orthodox [cross talk].

00:39:05.360 - 00:39:08.960

Tom Meschery: Did you really? Morton Marcus: Oh, God. Tom Meschery: Oh. Morton Marcus: I went there and- I don't know if you know this, I

00:39:08.960 - 00:39:19.730

don't know how long it's been since you've been there, but they have painted the entire inside with, you know, wall paintings, murals, all over. Tom Meschery: Oh, really?

00:39:19.730 - 00:39:31.510

Morton Marcus: Yes, just as in the churches in Russia. Tom Meschery: You know, it's very funny because, well, funny- strange is probably the better word. The Russian community was divided when I was growing up, divided into three different

00:39:31.510 - 00:39:44.230

groups depending upon which church you went to. There was the church my mother attended, which had as its center the church on Green and Van Ness. Morton Marcus: Yeah, that's the oldest Orthodox Church in

00:39:44.230 - 00:39:55.430

America. Tom Meschery: Right, and then there was another church belonging to the same diocese, out on Balboa and Anza. And my mother, we lived out there and my mother would go to that

00:39:55.430 - 00:40:11.780

church. And those were what they called the American-Russian Metropolite. So he was stationed in New York, Bishop John Shahovskoy, and my mother though he was a saint, loved him. An so they sent their money an their allegiance to him. The bi

00:40:11.780 - 00:40:28.850

cathedral was actually th expatriate. And they alway believed that they were going o return to Russia. My mother w s so naive and never went to t e cathedral, and I went there on y a few times, I would always o to the Easter services either

00:40:29.870 - 00:40:46.550

n the Van Ness church or Van Nes , Green church, or I go to the ne on Balboa and Anza. And t en there was another chur h, another couple of churches wh re- that were the- communist. They would send their money to back to R

00:40:46.700 - 00:40:55.040

Morton Marcus: Oh, because there was one of those down in the Mission District. Tom Meschery: There was one in the Mission District and there's one on Fulton, I believe. Yeah, I may be wrong about the Fulton

00:40:55.040 - 00:40:59.870

one but there were a number of those- there was one down in Menlo Park. Morton Marcus: Yeah. Tom Meschery: And Dayton-

00:40:59.870 - 00:41:08.000

Morton Marcus: There is a great old hermitage down on the coast, right before you get to Half Moon Bay. Tom Meschery: Right. I don't know what their allegiance was. Morton Marcus: Yeah.

00:41:08.060 - 00:41:20.780

Tom Meschery: Where they fell between those three Metropolites. And the Metropolite Cathedral never sent their money to Russia, they always send it to the Metropolite in Syria, I believe, or Turkey.

00:41:20.840 - 00:41:36.930

Morton Marcus: Yeah. Tom Meschery: Anyway. Yeah, so very interesting stuff. And so a lot of people- my aunts, by the way, did a- there was a constant argument between one of my aunts and another one of her friends,

00:41:37.170 - 00:41:56.400

whether they should join the sort of the blue bloods of San Francisco, the society, the high society of San Francisco. And this is [unidentified] who was a princess, actually was all for it, she was really hot to be part of the San Francisco, you

00:41:56.400 - 00:42:13.160

know, society. And my other- my aunt, Mrs. Galitzine, which is also princess from the old [unidentified] dynasty. Morton Marcus: Okay. Tom Meschery: And she said, no- I, you know, she married a dairy

00:42:13.160 - 00:42:30.980

farmer, you know, in Tomales Bay, around Tomales Bay. So she was milking cows, she was a princess milking cows. And she said she'd rather clean shitpots than be part of the San Francisco society. She was a wonderful gal and so I wrote a

00:42:30.980 - 00:42:50.790

poem about the aunts and this is how it goes: Irina Ivanovna- [Commentary] And that's my- that's the woman who is the princess who wants to be part of our society, okay.

00:42:51.140 - 00:43:07.010

Irina Ivanovna complains, her voice gone slightly tipsy. "The revolution was a dreadful mistake. Given the choice, who would have left? Who leaves a dinner with a full plate, a full glass still on the table?" The other aunt swears she'd shovel

00:43:07.010 - 00:43:25.580

shit first before she joined those San Francisco nouveau riche so-called Blue Bloods from Pacific Heights. Irina Ivanovna sews her title, "Princess," into clothes and makes good money from women dying for nobility. Neither aunt knows or cares that

00:43:25.580 - 00:43:42.290

I am wide awake, my bedroom door ajar, listening to the life we lost. The Grand Ballroom in St. Petersburg, our estates they spent their girlhood summers in, autumn trips to Paris. They scold my mother for her un-beluga tins, champagne unfit

00:43:42.290 - 00:44:01.250

to drink, day-old bread, missing crystal. Oh, caviar, the princess weeps for elegance. "We were not cinderellas, for pity's sake, why run from our own fairy tale?" Imperial Russia, no farther than earshot of my bedroom. One aunt says she's had

00:44:01.250 - 00:44:18.440

enough, the other says Tsar Nicholas, the weakling, and his German wife spoiled everything. A rush for coats, kisses cheek to cheek. All the way to the door, Irina Ivanovna argues they should join high society, those commoners, even if they were

00:44:18.440 - 00:44:30.920

beneath their station, were the closest thing to Russia in America. Morton Marcus: It's great, and there are other poems that I just love from the section. But then we go to section number

00:44:30.920 - 00:44:43.130

two- Tom Meschery: Sure. Morton Marcus: -and read us several of these wonderful poems. There's one from- about your father, which is very

00:44:43.130 - 00:45:00.320

moving. Tom Meschery: Oh, this is the very first poem, as a matter of fact, and each section I tried to write a poem, the first poem of that section tied into the previous section. So this poem

00:45:00.350 - 00:45:15.200

is really about me as a basketball player but it has to do with- it has a lot to do with Russia. So it ties into the previous section, which is all about Russia. So it kind of brings it-

00:45:15.500 - 00:45:25.390

Morton Marcus: It's a bridge. Tom Meschery: Yeah, it's a bridge that comes to this section on sports. So- and the poem is entitled, "Tom Meschery." In fact, every one of the poems in this next section,

00:45:26.140 - 00:45:33.970

their titles are the names of certain players in the NBA. Morton Marcus: Right. Tom Meschery: So this title is: TOM MESCHERY: POWER FORWARD FOR THE GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS AND

00:45:33.970 - 00:45:51.260

SEATTLE SONICS I admit sleeping in late at the Hilton, ordering room service, handing out big tips while other men are opening their lunch buckets. I know you would have scolded me. [In Russian]. What

00:45:51.260 - 00:46:07.100

kind of work is this for a man? Old immigrant, I admit all of this too late. You died before I could explain. Newspapers call me a journeymen. They write I roll up my sleeves and go to work. They use words like 'hammer' and 'muscle' to

00:46:07.100 - 00:46:24.860

describe me. For three straight years on the job, my nose collapsed, my knees ached, and I could never talk myself out of less than two injuries at a time. Father, you would have been proud of me, I labored in the company of large men.

00:46:25.850 - 00:46:37.970

Morton Marcus: And an addendum to that poem is that your father refused to come and see you play ball. Tom Meschery: Never. In the entire time, he never came to the game. My mother would come to the game until she started

00:46:37.970 - 00:46:52.970

having a little heart trouble and then she said it was a little bit too much for her to watch me play. But my father never came to a game and I always bemoaned that fact. I was, you know, I had a very difficult time with him, and

00:46:52.970 - 00:47:06.530

then never could get him to sort of open up and admit basketball was even worthy of me. I think he wanted me to go to work or, you know, go join the army or something. Yeah, real work. Yeah, what is this thing about bouncing a ball and running

00:47:06.530 - 00:47:16.250

around with shorts, you know, exposing your knees, you know? That wasn't manly enough, so- Morton Marcus: Well, how about two or three of these, your favorite poems, and then we'll go into teaching because,

00:47:16.550 - 00:47:30.760

believe it or not, we have only got ten minutes. Tom Meschery: Well, to me, "Willis Reed," is a wonderful poem that I enjoyed. He was the center for the New York Knicks, '97, '77 NBA championship team. And he's sort of an icon, known

00:47:30.970 - 00:47:46.060

particularly for the very last game in the championships against the Los Angeles Lakers, when, after a terrible, terrible injury, after he was taken to the locker room, nobody expected him to come back. He limped back out onto the court and led the

00:47:46.060 - 00:47:59.440

New York Knicks to their championship, out-playing Wilt Chamberlain's Los Angeles Lakers. And it was- it was a pretty astounding, you know, feat. So this is a poem I wrote to him.

00:47:59.930 - 00:48:16.850

You limped onto the court and made sports history. I limped to the kitchen for a beer, feeling this pain not in my leg but in my heart. Only two years out of the league and already my body breaking down, a simple maneuver with a lawn mower and I heard

00:48:16.850 - 00:48:34.430

the muscle tear. No thanks to you, I'll probably hear somebody at work tomorrow say, "Look at Willis, only one good wheel and able to out-play Wilt." Horse laughs then the bright eyes of the dandelions staring from the lawn, daring me to return.

00:48:38.270 - 00:48:50.480

Morton Marcus: [Chuckles] Tom Meschery: And probably one of my fav- my most, the poem th t I like, well, probably as goo as any in this book is a oem written to Hakeem Olajuwon who was called Hakeem the Dream

00:48:50.480 - 00:49:07.430

he was a center for the Hou ton Rockets and he came rom Nigeria. I spent a lot of t me, Mort, in Africa coaching thr ugh the USIA, coaching the var ous national teams in West Af ica after each basketball season was over, and I just loved

00:49:07.430 - 00:49:25.470

West Africa and had a great time there. I really enjoyed it. This poem is enti HAKEEM OLAJUWON, and there are some, let me see, there's some French in there "Dis donc" is ki d of an of French expression lik

00:49:25.770 - 00:49:46.200

, oh, you know, you know, so t was one of those, you know, d s donc. Say it's not so, you kno . And then, "Qu'en penses tu, entraîneur?" simply means What do you think, coach?" Ent aîneur is the French word for c ach. "Vous m'assiste?" is "Will

00:49:46.200 - 00:50:05.530

ou help me?" in French. Let e see, is there anything else? I In Africa, each morning practice starts with warmups, the youngest on the team, perhaps sixteen, always waiting for me, sits in a thin shade below the back board, reading the latest

00:50:05.530 - 00:50:23.440

article about Hakeem. We stretch hamstrings then slow jog around the court. He keeps pace all the while talking about the dream. "Dis donc," he says, "with a dream, we would defeat Senegal and be champions of West Africa." "Qu'en penses-tu

00:50:23.470 - 00:50:40.420

entraîneur?" What do I think? I can't about anything more than the red and smoky sun rising over the opposite basket, the heat already sweating my shirt, and how the rain suddenly began halfway through practice. I shag his jump shots, the one he

00:50:40.420 - 00:50:58.420

swears are like Hakeem's, he says he will also attend the University of Houston, later play for the NBA. "Vous m'assiste?" But his shots are ugly, too flat. I nod. My, they lack the backspin, the softness of the dreams. I nod my head,

00:50:58.750 - 00:51:12.400

whatever I can do, my best shot. I am in the country of Burkina Faso, its name means "Land of upright people." Morton Marcus: Okay, one more? Tom Meschery: Out of the sports section?

00:51:12.400 - 00:51:18.130

Morton Marcus: Yeah. Tom Meschery: Okay, how does the sports section- Morton Marcus: I like- Tom Meschery: Which one do you like?

00:51:18.780 - 00:51:30.190

Morton Marcus: The Earl of Pearl, you know, [cross talk] because you play with that pearl. Tom Meschery: "Earl the Pearl Monroe." Well, he's- this is actually in his voice, the poem is written in his voice and so

00:51:30.190 - 00:51:46.300

it's in italics. And Earl the Pearl was a great player for the New York Knicks and for the Baltimore team, and so far ahead of his time. It was just a- They actually called him as he walked into the playgrounds, they actually called him Jesus Christ

00:51:46.750 - 00:52:01.480

because, you know, he was so, so great then, and respected by all of the playground players. I mean, he was a true playground player that managed to play in the NBA. In the rec leagues, they called me black Jesus. When I walked

00:52:01.480 - 00:52:19.060

onto the court, the crowd parted like water. In college, somebody found a rhyme and I became a pearl. I guess I've been a mixed metaphor ever since. Sometimes when I back the player down into the paint and spun into my shot, I knew before the ball left my

00:52:19.060 - 00:52:30.760

fingers, it was going in. At that moment, I could have healed lepers, raised the dead. I think he could have raised the dead. I'm pretty sure he could have.

00:52:31.060 - 00:52:42.340

Morton Marcus: There are a lot of other famous ballplayers, you know, I mean, classic- Tom Meschery: Oh, sure, there's a poem about Wilt, there's about Tommy Heinsohn, Kobe Bryant, Phil Jackson, the coach, you

00:52:42.340 - 00:52:49.980

know? Morton Marcus: Let's hear some of these- now in the third section, which is all about teaching. Let's hear, maybe we have time for two of the-

00:52:50.250 - 00:53:02.470

Tom Meschery: Okay. All right. Morton Marcus: -the high school teaching poems. Tom Meschery: There's, there's one poem that comes out of the at-risk class I used to teach. A young girl who, I mean- it was

00:53:02.710 - 00:53:22.270

so touching. And it's a sonnet and it's written to this young girl who all she wanted to be was a beautician. That's all she wanted to do, to do nails and, you know, cut nails and hair and she was- that was her most modest wish. And it's:

00:53:22.290 - 00:53:36.960

A SONNET FOR A FUTURE BEAUTICIAN Lord, give this little girl what she wants. Her dream is so modest, that hair will be beautiful and perfectly styled, that she will possess the knack, the light touch by which all

00:53:36.960 - 00:53:54.690

strands will bend to her command, swept back or lightly fall over one eye, that she can also manicure on the side, hold her customers hands gently, in and out of cleansing liquid, listening to their stories while she files and decorates, cutting

00:53:54.690 - 00:54:37.950

back the cuticles. For this little girl, Lord, let hair be heavenly set, and on those slender nails allow pale half moons to rise forever. Morton Marcus: It's gorgeous. I mean [cross talk] beautiful.

00:54:16.590 - 00:54:34.400

There's a poem that a lot of my teachers liked, may not be the best poem in the book, but it's certainly a book that the teachers identify with and it's called, "Suicide," on page 53. And every high school teacher has had that experience, a

00:54:34.480 - 00:54:47.770

student in the class who fell through the cracks, nobody knew It's great. who he or she was, after the suicide was over, after the accident in which he died or she died, happened. And then we

00:54:47.840 - 00:54:57.670

start thinking about who the student was and we begin to remember little bits and pieces about him or her. And it's called: Tom Meschery: It's a nice poem. SUICIDE

00:54:58.290 - 00:55:15.750

One teacher says she saw it coming, which drives the rest of us by lunch crazy with guilt, remembering the old Ed movie, "Cipher in the Snow." So we promised ourselves next period, we'll embrace all our students, even the walleyed one who lurks

00:55:15.930 - 00:55:34.800

in the back drawing obscenities on his desk. Of course we don't, returning to decorum with the bell, to Marilyn passing notes, Harry's running nose, Carrie's menstrual cramps, essays overdue, forgotten texts. In sixth period, one girl by the

00:55:34.800 - 00:55:52.680

windows starts to weep but when I ask was he her friend, she shakes her head. She never knew him but thinks he was her brother's best friend's cousin. By then, her tears have started a chain reaction, all around the room students are crying, the

00:55:52.680 - 00:56:06.440

way one can't help humming a certain tune, or when frightened in the dark, whistling. Morton Marcus: Yeah, it's a lovely poem, lovely poem. Tom, it has been- well, we still have time for another short one.

00:56:06.830 - 00:56:13.550

Let's just squeeze them all in. Tom Meschery: Okay, squeeze them in. A short one? Morton Marcus: Yeah. Tom Meschery: Not sure if I- well, there's a little short one

00:56:13.550 - 00:56:29.390

here. I kind of like it. It's called, "Trucks," because I drive from Truckee down to Reno every morning, for years, and always those big dog gone trucks, you know, come up behind me and damn near run me over, my little Datsun, you know, that's

00:56:29.390 - 00:56:38.500

what I was driving back then. I hated those guys, hated them, so I wrote a poem about it, you know. It's called: TRUCKS Out of the morning half light they come upon you suddenly,

00:56:38.800 - 00:56:55.990

like a headache, or that dog your neighbor never leashes, that stops inches from your kneecap, its teeth barred and snarling. Bumper to bumper, their grills rise above you in the rearview mirror, silver, emblematic, as towerful and

00:56:55.990 - 00:57:11.980

American as Madison Square Garden. That's when you wish for Guatemala, or the rain-soaked roads of West Africa after a sudden monsoon, to slow everything down, the pace of your heart to tropical. That's when you pray for sixteen

00:57:11.980 - 00:57:28.690

wheelers, stuck up to their hubs in mud, reduced to life forever in the third world without respect, like teachers going to work, or small four-cylinder used cars. Morton Marcus: And those were the poems, if you've just tuned

00:57:28.690 - 00:57:47.020

in, of Tom Meschery, the immortal NBA player who turned poet, and the book is called, "Nothing We Lose Can Be Replaced." And if you are looking for it, get in touch with the University of Nevada Press and they may still have a

00:57:47.020 - 00:57:57.940

few left. Tom, thanks so much for coming in and sharing an hour with us. Tom Meschery: It's a pleasure. And then we'll have a little Stilton cheese and then a lit le port afterwards, won't

00:57:58.230 - 00:58:03.990

Morton Marcus: The most civilized, Sir! [Laughs] Tom Meschery: Most civilized! [Laughs] Morton Marcus: Thank you very much. Bob, thanks again for doing the boards.