00:02:49.050 - 00:05:08.690

Morton Marcus: This is KUSP 89.9 on your FM dial, community supported radio for the Monterey Bay and the Salinas Valley. Good afternoon, this is the Poetry Show. I'm your host Mort Marcus with an hour of poetry from KUSP. And I'd like to

00:05:08.690 - 00:05:29.210

thank, before we begin, Plaza Books of Santa Cruz whose generous donation supports this program and certainly makes it possible. Today, with hot flashing music in the background, our guest is Maude Meehan, whose Collected Poems,

00:05:29.240 - 00:05:54.440

"Chipping Bone," has just been released by Ember Books. And she will be giving a book signing and reading tomorrow night at the Bookshop Santa Cruz at 7pm. And we are happy to welcome her here for both a talk and a reading this afternoon. If you

00:05:54.440 - 00:06:10.400

have never heard Maude, this is a wonderful introduction, I hope it will be a wonderful introduction to her work. And I'm going to ask Maude to start out by just reading us a poem and then talking about it so that you can get some sense of

00:06:11.420 - 00:06:24.860

the multifaceted concerns and interests that this woman has and has brought to Santa Cruz and has influenced so many people, who both know her and have listened to her poetry and have learned from her. Maude, welcome to the show.

00:06:25.040 - 00:06:39.200

Maude Meehan: Thank you Morton. I'd like to start with the book- with the poem that I got the title of the book from, and it was a rather bizarre dream, as a matter of fact, that this poem emanated from.

00:06:39.390 - 00:06:47.730

Morton Marcus: Right, I should say that again, the title of the book is: CHIPPING BONE Maude Meehan: This dream, a murky broth stirred with long

00:06:47.760 - 00:07:09.060

twisted spoon. I dip my fingers, draw careful crimson flowers on my breasts. The petals dry, brown, brittle edges curl, become old photographs I will not recognize, pale, tremulous young brides, dust-veiled, whose eyes pick nervously at silence.

00:07:09.720 - 00:07:26.970

Music begins, a dissonance, a needle rasping and one grooves, sharp tinny voices scold me to dance, stricken, on crooked legs, I cannot move. This dream has chipped the bone at its most fragile joining.

00:07:31.950 - 00:07:44.970

Morton Marcus: Why don't you tell why. And I know you wanted to start the program with that poem. Why did you want to start with that poem? And what exactly what special significance does that poem have for you?

00:07:46.430 - 00:08:08.060

Maude Meehan: Well, it was the first poem that I wrote that was not a poem about my family, a poem about my life. It was the first somewhat surreal poem and I don't care very much for surreal or obscure poetry. I like poetry to be direct, to

00:08:08.060 - 00:08:32.210

speak directly to the emotions, to the heart, to the vision, and very often, if a poem is obscure, I somehow feel I'm being patronized. Perhaps that's wrong but I chose this poem because the title came from a poem, and because it was the

00:08:32.210 - 00:08:52.760

first poem that I wrote that was not a direct, strong, personal statement. Morton Marcus: Your poems are known for their direct, strong, personal statements, and you have spent your life - if I may

00:08:52.760 - 00:09:09.560

say so and I hope I do not make you blush with this, and it seems as though this is what I get from, "Chipping Bone" - in making this world a little better place to live, both for your family and for the family of man and woman. And what I

00:09:09.560 - 00:09:26.660

hope to do in this program is have you read from the different sections of this book, which talk about all of the different aspects of your life. Now I know that this is the Collected Poems of Maude Meehan and I know that it is written all really in the

00:09:26.660 - 00:09:46.580

last ten years. But it certainly talks about the biography of Maude Meehan for those enriching and enriched years of your life. So will you talk, maybe just tell us a little bit about where you're from and what your life has been and some of the

00:09:46.580 - 00:10:07.350

important points of your life? Maude Meehan: Okay, I'm originally from New York City. I moved to the country, I lived in a rural redneck religious town for many years, and it was a great change from New York City.

00:10:07.380 - 00:10:26.730

I worked in the city as a social worker. Morton Marcus: Where- where was this? Maude Meehan: This was close to Buffalo, New York. And I would go every day from my lily-white, rural, religious, redneck, rural

00:10:26.730 - 00:10:48.860

town, to the inner bowels of Buffalo. I mean, Buffalo is- Morton Marcus: It's a bowel, yes. Maude Meehan: To start with. And the schizophrenic dichotomy between the two lives, the two worlds, had a real effect on me.

00:10:48.980 - 00:11:05.810

But I was very much involved, at the time, in the civil rights movement, and was beginning to be involved in the women's movement and in the peace movement because Vietnam was just beginning to gather momentum at that time. And so,

00:11:05.990 - 00:11:27.050

my life at that time was rather chaotic, very, very busy. I also had a family at home. And I've had a long and checkered career, Morton. When you say these poems are about my life, they're about a tiny [cross talk] [unintelligible]. Yes. And I'm

00:11:27.050 - 00:11:49.820

not a conscious do-gooder. I just feel very much, as I know you have felt in the past in interviews that I've read, that the world is a very uncomfortable, unhappy place. And I feel very drawn towards- I'm an optimist at heart, and I

00:11:49.820 - 00:12:06.580

feel drawn towards those disenfranchised people who have no voice and because I am fortunate enough to be privileged to have a voice, I want to use it. Morton Marcus: Okay, I thought that I would make you blush by

00:12:06.670 - 00:12:24.370

saying that you wanted to make the family man better. Folks, it is just Maude's natural humility, which is coming through. But the subject of this is poetry and so therefore, I'd like you to go at this any way, but the way I hoped I would is

00:12:24.370 - 00:12:33.990

sort of section by section. Maude Meehan: Okay. Morton Marcus: And read, you know, your favorite poems from the sections, talk about them, introduce them any way you want

00:12:33.990 - 00:12:38.430

to. Maude Meehan: All right. Morton Marcus: And I will inject a comment here or there. Maude Meehan: Okay.

00:12:38.720 - 00:12:45.750

Morton Marcus: And the first section I know is called, "Mothers and Daughters," and why don't you say something about it? Maude Meehan: Okay, I will. You know, Morton, once you said in

00:12:45.750 - 00:12:59.940

an interview that I cut out and clipped because it was a wonderful interview, and you said something that came very close to me. You said that you write to discover who you are, what you were thinking about, and where your self had turned

00:12:59.940 - 00:13:13.620

to the choirs of dead ancestors, and that's a direct quote. Morton Marcus: Geez, did I write that? Maude Meehan: Definitely forcibly, yes. Well, you know, family's in my bones and I use my skeleton, I chip bone from

00:13:13.620 - 00:13:34.260

it. And I'll start with the, "Mothers and Daughters," section and read one or two poems. You talk about my modesty, I have no favorites. They're all my favorites. All because they're rather like my own children and seeing them in this book out in

00:13:34.260 - 00:13:49.820

the world. I've seen them anthologized here and there and seen them in journals and papers, but to see them all together, it's like having my family under my wing. Morton Marcus: Let's take one digression here and that is to

00:13:49.820 - 00:14:07.520

talk about the book itself. It is put out by Embers Press and it is a beautiful, beautiful book. The paper is just wonderful to feel, it is just wonderfully printed, again by a lady I mentioned on this some program before, Felicia Rice on

00:14:07.520 - 00:14:24.440

Moving Parts Press helped by Leland Vandiver. And for the beauty of the book alone - and every poet really wants a beautiful book; I'm sure you're very happy - and it certainly is worth having. That and the contents make this again, and I

00:14:24.440 - 00:14:41.570

mean, it seems like every week I'm coming up with another book published by a Santa Cruz writer, and again, it just shows how enriched and lucky we are to have such such a creative aura and force going on in this county. But I don't want to

00:14:41.570 - 00:14:56.550

sound too Chamber of Commerce-ish. Maude Meehan: Well, you should because this is a mecca for writers and there is some wonderful talent here. My mother will be ninety-six on November 30th.

00:14:56.960 - 00:15:13.620

Morton Marcus: Okay. Maude Meehan: And it's been a very long and rich relationship. We have a very, very close understanding. And she is now quite incapacitated, she is an invalid, and she has very little

00:15:13.620 - 00:15:34.140

vision, very little hearing, and certainly can't walk. And it's very difficult for me to see her this way. And last year my sister called me and told me that my mother had not recognized her when she went in to see her. And it upset her

00:15:34.140 - 00:15:50.760

dreadfully and she said, "I want to prepare you so that you won't be as shocked as I was." And it took quite a bit of doing for me to feel okay about that. But I wrote this song: NEW GAME SONG

00:15:51.530 - 00:16:10.790

Propped in a chair, there sits a pale lady, quivery whitehead wisp of a lady who made up the games I played as a child. She has disguised the strong hands that held me. Gnarled them like ginger root knotted with pain. See how she plays now? Pretends

00:16:10.790 - 00:16:32.390

not to know me, pretends she's forgotten even my name. Mother, please tell me the rules of this game. You know, when I go into her room, she calls me by her favorite sister's name, she calls me her mother's name. And

00:16:33.380 - 00:16:52.040

really it took a bit of getting used to, but now I just answer for them. And I feel very, very privileged because now I can be her daughter, her mother, her sister, whoever she needs me to be. And that's very comforting because she's been so much for

00:16:52.040 - 00:17:03.860

me. Morton Marcus: That's a very interesting attitude, a very poetic attitude, if I may say. If you're not going to use that in the poem, I am.

00:17:05.130 - 00:17:15.230

Maude Meehan: Okay. This is a very short poem about my daughter and it's called: NEW LIFE My daughter's belly moves beneath my hand. The child

00:17:15.230 - 00:17:36.870

within her stirring, stirs in me a rush of all of mystery so strong, so primal in its source. I touch infinity. [Inaudible] Morton Marcus: No, go on.

00:17:37.080 - 00:17:53.130

Maude Meehan: Oh, okay. This was another poem. My daughter was across the country and it's called: WAITING The nurse marks an appointment. It is my daughter's name she

00:17:53.130 - 00:18:13.260

writes. Once more, the bow is drawn, the arrow aimed at one of mine. I wait for word, the surgeon's verdict finds its target in my child. It pierces me. I cannot come to terms, make peace with possibilities that fracture reason. I leave the

00:18:13.260 - 00:18:33.090

house, go out into the windswept day, bitter to see the rain-lashed trees lose early blossoms. Pacing the cliffs, I sense erosion as wave on wave sucks at the shore. Along the far horizon, storm clouds squat gray and swollen, waiting.

00:18:38.040 - 00:18:55.020

Morton Marcus: This kinship you feel for, obviously, your mother, your daughter, and which will turn full circle in the course of the book and become part of the kinship you feel with a sisterhood of women in the section called, "Woman

00:18:55.020 - 00:19:17.070

Tree," is very interesting. And though you are a social activist at least part of the time, it is interesting that I have never in any of your poems detected anger, but just love and a real sense of being in the community of the human beings, no matter

00:19:17.070 - 00:19:27.990

what the gender really. Maude Meehan: Well, it's interesting that you should say that because actually I have a lot of anger. And I didn't write for a year and a half. Just the year and a half that passed. I

00:19:27.990 - 00:19:42.870

just began writing again a month ago because I found my frustration and my anger at the state of the world, and man's inhumanity to man, and starvation, and all those things that we pick up the paper and read about and turn off the

00:19:42.870 - 00:20:00.120

news, off going to bed with our thumb in our mouths because it's all so awful. And I was so fed up and so angry. Then I decided that what I was going to do was get it out, because writing is, you know, therapeutic, it is, there's just no question about

00:20:00.120 - 00:20:16.560

it. And you take it out of your gut and put it on a piece of paper and you can put it in a drawer, tear it up, whatever. And it does help relieve the tension. And so what I did was to, well, I heard someone say that every time you write a

00:20:16.560 - 00:20:38.250

letter of complaint to your representatives, or to your- to a corporation, or your grocery store, or whatever, you represent three thousand people. So, I spent a year and a half getting rid of all my- I wrote to the President, I wrote to TV

00:20:38.250 - 00:20:49.900

stations, radios, the newspapers, whatever, when I saw- you know, writing about violence and all kinds of things. Morton Marcus: Well, again, I stick by what I said, because

00:20:49.900 - 00:21:08.230

you got rid of that anger in letters, but it's not in the poems. It's like you're saying though, poems are for something else, they are not for letting this, you know, misery go out into the the universe, therefore that kind of music is different,

00:21:08.230 - 00:21:22.090

that kind of music is a healing music. Maude Meehan: Yeah, well, my feeling is that hopefully, that the poet is an alchemist, a magician, who can turn the ordinary into something that doesn't just please you, but

00:21:22.090 - 00:21:41.830

excites or surprises or effectively reaches you somehow. And I have a little poem with me that is kind of a touchstone for me. It's not mine. It was written centuries ago by Yuan Qin and it's an excerpt from an elegy. And Chinese poems have

00:21:41.830 - 00:21:59.170

that spare quality that I began to learn to have, by chipping away. And he wrote: Long ago, we could laugh at dying, but death, a magician, closed you in his hand, and opened it, suddenly empty.

00:22:00.070 - 00:22:18.280

And that was such an exquisite distillation to me of something so powerful, that I am too well-acquainted with, the ringing of a phone or the opening of a door changing your whole life, and death usually being behind the door, or on the

00:22:18.280 - 00:22:38.260

other end of the phone, and how shocking it is. And that he could express it so beautifully, that a magician closed you in his hand and opened it suddenly empty. And I used that poem for many years to- when I would write all my feelings out on

00:22:38.260 - 00:22:50.810

paper. And I would look at it and say, "How would Yuan Qin have said this?" And God knows, I may not have succeeded, but I tried. Morton Marcus: Well, that's a great lesson for young writers

00:22:50.810 - 00:23:03.140

out there. Also you choose someone who has said something that you think has been said to perfection, and then you just use that as your touchstone. Maude Meehan: It's rather like a Japanese flower arrangement,

00:23:03.140 - 00:23:22.640

here are all these beautiful, beautiful flowers, and you hate to take one of them out, but as you take them out, so form arises, you know, clear, pure form. And you're left with that, with just a few flowers, and so I try very hard to reach that

00:23:22.640 - 00:23:37.450

state in my poetry. Morton Marcus: Well, let's see more of this bouquet. Maude Meehan: All right. Now, this next section, the basket has such a variety of poetry in it, you're going to have to-

00:23:39.820 - 00:23:51.460

Morton Marcus: Well, here's something close to my heart, it may not be close to yours, but how about the, "Old Chinese Labor Camp?" Maude Meehan: Okay. I am sure a lot of you have been up to

00:23:51.490 - 00:24:12.010

Nisene Marks Park and have been to the Chinese labor camp. And I went up there with my son on a walk and well, this is what happened. I started thinking about those- those men who came across the ocean, and what it was like for the ones who were

00:24:12.010 - 00:24:27.010

left behind and so forth. OLD CHINESE LABOR CAMP The songs of small caged birds were heard behind walled gardens in the province of Quanyi. Blown on salt breeze, the scent of

00:24:27.010 - 00:24:47.140

incense moved through early, stunted pines, mingled with prayers for sons and husbands' safe return. Only harsh warning cries of nesting birds break eerie silence on the mountain trail. Through failing shafts of light, chill wind stirs fingers

00:24:47.140 - 00:25:07.660

through the vines that creep to cover remnants of a camp where alien men once lived. Thick odor of decay hangs over roofs and walls of shacks collapsed against tall trees. Close by, a ledge of rock reveals, unlikely, out of time and place, a trace

00:25:07.660 - 00:25:23.800

of fossil shells, faint etchings of fish vertebrae, cast by a pebble of an ancient sea, strange hieroglyphs on unfamiliar land where moss and scales of lichen draw their blankets quietly.

00:25:26.330 - 00:25:42.770

Morton Marcus: Well, yeah, it's a really nice poem. And I have been up there and that throughout really captures the feeling. I've often thought of the same stretching of geography and cultural geography. And in that same line, another poem

00:25:42.770 - 00:25:59.250

that I liked a lot from this section was, "For A Small, Dark Woman In A Small Dark Place." Maude Meehan: Right after I wrote this poem, I wrote about Esther Philip's, and right after I wrote it, Esther Philips died

00:25:59.520 - 00:26:15.830

at age forty-eight and she died in August of 1984. And I had been to see her at this wonderful, wonderful- well, I'll read the poem and you'll understand. FOR A SMALL DARK WOMAN IN A SMALL DARK PLACE

00:26:16.440 - 00:26:35.250

Slat-skinny in that flashy dress, face rattled as Georgia mud in winter. You have us crazy for you at that wall-to-wall jam concert, three– or was it four long years ago? You took us high, then higher, harder than any fantasy, then cooled us.

00:26:35.400 - 00:26:53.490

Hushed us into tears, singing with all the pain and fear that ever sprung from being black and filled with woman knowledge. This morning, driving the freeway, flipping the FM dial, your wail hooked out and caught me and I thought about that

00:26:53.490 - 00:27:11.370

nightclub where I saw you only weeks ago, no twelve-piece band this time, no strobe-lit platform and no cheering fans. You showed up late and moved on stage somewhere between a stagger and a stumble and midway through, you spaced out on the

00:27:11.370 - 00:27:29.220

lyrics. The backup trio covered up like it was nothing new, playing for time you threw an apathetic bump and grind and heard the snickers turned catcalls. For what seemed like forever, you stood there dazed and stared out blinking at an

00:27:29.220 - 00:27:45.750

audience gone silent. The bass man tried to lead you off, but you turned and brayed a scream that sent your pain right through me. And I held it when what I wanted was to hold and comfort you. But that would only have stepped harder on your

00:27:45.750 - 00:28:03.240

pride, so I just slipped out real quiet and drove home and yes, I cried, remembering that other time, how you stood hands on hips and sassy ass, feet planted wide, laughing and bragging, "Ain't nobody gonna bump their uglies on this sister

00:28:03.270 - 00:28:22.260

unless she say so." And how we all laughed, raucous with you, loved you proud, with just a piece of jealous, thinking you had it all together, wrapped and tied. Morton Marcus: Did you ever find out why she fell apart that way?

00:28:22.260 - 00:28:41.220

Was she ill with terminal illness or something? Maude Meehan: You might have noticed that in the same section, "The Basket," I have a few poems about addicts. And I worked for many years with young people who were drug dependent

00:28:41.250 - 00:28:55.950

and even with some older people. And Esther Phillips was one of those people who was drug dependent and that was what eventually took her life. Morton Marcus: Did she die of an overdose?

00:28:56.710 - 00:29:10.900

Maude Meehan: I don't know what the particulars were, but I know that she was doing- yeah. Morton Marcus: How about, well, another one in this section I would ask, it seems to me a particularly rich section. I

00:29:10.900 - 00:29:27.660

also liked, "Escape." Maude Meehan: I'd like to read- there's something I wanted to read. And that was the reason I wanted to read it in conjunction with, "A Small Dark Woman In A Small Dark Place," and I didn't

00:29:27.660 - 00:29:47.400

know until this minute that I did as I turned the page. There's a poem in here called, "Ritual," and years ago I took a workshop with Olga Broumas, the 1978 Yale Younger poet, and one of the things that she said that when a poem is emotionally- when

00:29:47.400 - 00:30:07.110

an experience is emotionally loaded for you, that if you can distance yourself by writing in a very tight form and writing at a remove or putting into another category rather than the one in which it really is, say for instance, the ghetto, that that

00:30:07.110 - 00:30:27.340

is one way of dealing with your emotions and writing a clean poem. And so I tried to write that about a woman I knew who was a heroin addict and also a very dear friend. And that poem RITUAL, and I wrote it as an allegory.

00:30:22.080 - 00:30:43.560

was: Wasted lady takes the scarf she will wear for her lover, ties it tightly around her arm. He is her knight, it is his pennant. The silver spoon and the candle are made ready in his honor. She

00:30:43.560 - 00:31:01.650

prepares to receive him, lights the flame, melts the powder. She exists for this moment, counts the hours till their meeting. How subtle his seduction, how willing her surrender. In the hollow of her arms, he embroiders threads of scarlet,

00:31:01.980 - 00:31:28.860

seeds of death surging through her, seal their union, bind her closer. Satisfied, she unwinds, silken folds wraps him slyly. Safely hidden, he lies waiting in the coffin of her room. Morton Marcus: Why don't we have one more from this section or

00:31:28.860 - 00:31:44.850

the next section, if you want, and then we are going to take a musical break. Maude Meehan: Okay. Well, let's see. ESCAPE, this is the one you asked for.

00:31:45.470 - 00:32:06.290

Here is a room held like a globe in summer heat. Blinds drawn against the aching eye of sun, a room biased in sub-aqueous half-light where only flash of fish behind curved glass who's soundlessly suggesting life. Picture the woman in this room

00:32:06.410 - 00:32:29.900

who sinks in humid sleep. This woman dreams, she too swims iridescent, sweeps waving frond of fin, long fan of tail. Only her gentle gliding, only her gentle gliding, only her graceful gliding is real, is real, is real. Distorted mouth

00:32:29.930 - 00:32:49.370

emerge in air blurred through the waters of her dream. Voices cause waves to crash against her ear, strident they call her name. Watch as she rises slowly, slowly, moves on reluctant passive feet to tend these gaping mouths that chew and

00:32:49.370 - 00:33:11.210

speak, unspeakable these dream destroyers, blindly unaware. Her hands, only her hands he'd feed these piranhas of her life, only her hands are theirs. Picture once more this woman as night falls, as she retreats from life, embraces sleep, closed in

00:33:11.210 - 00:33:31.970

the airless sultry room, weighted with hate and heat. See now the curtains as they move in the first breeze, only this graceful gliding, only this graceful gliding, only the silent secret flight is real, is real, is real.

00:35:04.260 - 00:35:22.050

Hello again, this is the Poetry Show and this is Mort Marcus and today, I am here with Maude Meehan. And we are discussing her Collected Poems which have just been released called, "Chipping Bone," put out by Ember Press, and we've been

00:35:22.050 - 00:35:40.350

reading from it and we will continue to read from it. But first, let me talk about some of the poetic events that are coming up. First of all, on November 19th, Tuesday at San Jose at 8pm, $5 donation at the door, at 374 South First Street,

00:35:40.620 - 00:36:01.710

we're going to have the San Jose Poetry Center and Media Mix present Dominique, Margarita Luna Robles, Slick Rick Salinas, and Juan Felipe Herrera, Gato. And those four poets will be again reading at 374 South First Street, San Jose, 8pm on

00:36:01.710 - 00:36:12.620

uesday, November 19th, that i next Tuesday, presented by th San Jose Poetry Center and Medi Mix. The Sweet Williams India Summer Cafe reading serie presents Roz Spafford, Dale Pe Morton Marcus: [music]

00:36:15.120 - 00:36:35.790

dell, and Dorianne Laux o Wednesday, November 20th, and t at is at 7:30pm at Sweet Willia s, 538 Seabright, admission is $2, and an open mic follows the readings for young poets who want to demonstrate our relationship to Keats, Elio

00:36:35.790 - 00:36:57.030

, and or Don Marquis. Next week here, Joe Stroud and I will do ne of our dual shows, and do i on a subject and a pers n who interests us greatly, an that is Greece. And we will be aving the visiting poet and edit r Eleni Fourtouni with us, sh

00:36:57.030 - 00:37:13.860

will read from her poetry, re d from her translations of Gre k women poets, and she will al o talk about, in fact, I'm going to insist that she talks about nd reads from, "Greek Wom n in Resistance," whic is a collection of memoirs

00:37:13.860 - 00:37:33.570

f the Greek women who are n the leftist resistance whi h was crushed brutally in 194 , '47, and '48, a subject that v ry much interests me. In f ct, I'm reading the book right now and though it is a horror s ory, it is also again, a bo

00:37:33.570 - 00:37:51.240

k about great courage and love of mankind. So, that's next week Joe and I will be here w th Eleni Fourtouni, who wil also be reading in the area. Sh will be in the county for four ays and she will be reading at he YWCA downtown at 7:30pm

00:37:51.570 - 00:38:08.580

And that's Saturday, Novembe 23rd. Meanwhile, Thursday, Nove ber 21st at 12:30pm at Cabrillo College, she will be in room 14. So, I will read those again t the end of the program, b t that is Eleni Fourtouni you w ll only be in this area for

00:38:08.580 - 00:38:31.440

a short while. At any rate we are talking with Maude Mee an, and I would like you to c ntinue to read. I am most int rested in this section called, "The Basket," and I know you re too. So, if you would li e to read more poems from i

00:38:31.440 - 00:40:47.220

, I would have absolutely Maude Meehan: Okay. This poem is called: PEACE BRIDGE TO CANADA, and in 1969, I was working with the underground and I'd like to read it because, "The Escape," was

00:40:47.220 - 00:41:02.860

such a full poem and this is one of those lean spare ones that I prefer. The Underground is organized, takes only calculated risks. Still, I am always apprehensive. A pale young woman slides into

00:41:02.860 - 00:41:23.680

the car, she is composed and cool. We do not speak. We stop. Next passenger, army deserter, young, nervous, neatly dressed. We run an ID check on one another, rehearse new names, drive on in silence. We have our orders: follow the set rules,

00:41:23.890 - 00:41:43.630

exchange no information, no careless word, no clue to true identity, know it is possible that one of us could be a decoy. The border guards wait at the bridge. I roll the window down, smile, wonder if paranoia smells. We are questioned,

00:41:43.780 - 00:42:03.790

waived on, our facade accepted, innocuous sight-seers, mother, daughter, boyfriend, bound for Niagara Falls. Miles past, quiet, tense. We watch for the sign, "Toronto City Limits," arrive at last at the appointed place. He leaves the car, we

00:42:03.790 - 00:42:25.300

pull away, return without incident, part without words or touch. I reach my home, say that my day was spent in shops, tend to the dinner, embroider, read a book, then wish good night, rest well, to my young sons who sleep in warm familiar rooms. Turn on

00:42:25.300 - 00:42:47.590

TV for news of war, hear the box score of named and dead, silent, subtract by one and go to bed. Morton Marcus: You know, Maude, as I read that poem, it struck me that so much of that has to be footnoted now that for a

00:42:47.590 - 00:43:04.150

young person of twenty years old or more, first of all, they don't even know that there was a Vietnamese war. Secondly, that part of our experience was sitting at the dinner table, listening to and watching the body count in Vietnam, not of

00:43:04.150 - 00:43:20.260

American troops, but I'm supposed VCs, which meant Viet Cong for you young people out there. No one could imagine it, and I'm sure in a while, they won't even believe that that's what life was like during the 60s. So that and other poems in

00:43:20.260 - 00:43:39.220

the book bring back memories and preserve, for us, some very, very important part of the American experience. Maude Meehan: And they don't know about Toronto being the mecca for deserters and the Peace Bridge being a crossing

00:43:39.220 - 00:43:50.110

that was fully guarded and waiting to try to catch these young people. Morton Marcus: They think it's actually the George Washington Bridge of the olden day. And I don't mean to be facetious, but

00:43:50.680 - 00:44:04.870

something that has been so much a part of this, of really the ripping apart of this country, and yet, it just seems to have happened on another planet. Maude Meehan: I know. I know. That's why I like to read it to

00:44:04.870 - 00:44:24.250

remind people. That's why I wrote that other poem about, well, that's not important, okay. Something a little more current is, my niece and her baby were in Chiapas, Mexico, and she was very disturbed by what was happening to the

00:44:24.250 - 00:44:47.320

refugees there. And she started to smuggle supplies in to the Guatemalan natives who were not allowed into Mexico. And she would go from Chiapas into Guatemala, and finally was beginning to be aware that they were becoming aware of her, and

00:44:47.320 - 00:45:06.400

so she moved on to Nicaragua, and - with her baby - and our communications were censored, they were sporadic, they were of great concern because she would write up the things that she saw and heard. So, I wrote this poem after we had not heard from her

00:45:06.400 - 00:45:19.750

for a while and it's called: FOR KATE: SOMEWHERE IN NICARAGUA You travel inland on the backs of trucks, jammed in with chickens, goats, old women huddled under shawls, and

00:45:19.750 - 00:45:37.390

ancient silent men, and always, always without warning the roadblocks, the unpredictability, and arrogance of soldiers. By now, there are small bits of information you will have gathered, some useful for survival and some not. By

00:45:37.390 - 00:45:54.910

now, you will know all that you will ever want to know about the cold metallic sweat of fear, the gaseous smell of death, the dance of maggots in the sockets, and how the staring eyes are first to go. Between the world you move in where the

00:45:54.910 - 00:46:13.540

dispossessed and dead still multiply, between that world and here, where we wait anxiously, news travels slowly. The wires are crossed with lies told by the ones whose cocks swell at the smell of money, and whose hearts are wallets. I have this

00:46:13.540 - 00:46:34.000

dream you stumble toward thick jungle, then silence broken by our ragged gasps, and from the bundle that you carry, a high, thin wail. Last night the dream again. This time you stopped and turned, arms empty, darkly stained. I ran to help you but

00:46:34.000 - 00:46:54.580

you disappeared. Today, I dredge for prayers that women have offered up for centuries but fear still sits like some stale sacrament upon my tongue. I travel with you and your child into that void where prayers and loved ones vanish without trace.

00:46:57.420 - 00:47:15.510

Morton Marcus: Yeah, I was very moved by that poem too, unfortunately, and this may say something which I won't say, but I have to announce to the listeners out there, that some of the poems that Maude may be reading have strong language and

00:47:15.510 - 00:47:33.300

subject matter which may be offensive. So, please, I mean, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you read it. All I have to do is just, as an FCC rule, announce that there may be some strong words and offensive words to some people out there. And if

00:47:33.300 - 00:47:45.570

they want to turn it off, fine. They have been told now, so that's all you have to do. You read what you want to read. And I don't- I'm not offended by anything here. Maude Meehan: Okay, I'm sorry.

00:47:45.630 - 00:47:58.370

Morton Marcus: No, no, no, no, please don't feel that way. It's just an FCC rule. Maude Meehan: Okay. Why don't we go on to the next section? Morton Marcus: Okay. And the next section is called, "For

00:47:58.400 - 00:48:09.960

Acer and all the Years." Would you like to tell us something about that? Maude Meehan: Well, Acer is my husband, his name is really Don but he took one flying lesson when our sons were very small

00:48:09.960 - 00:48:29.730

and they nicknamed him Acer. And we have been married for forty-three years, we've known each other for fifty-one, and we've gone through just about everything that you can go through in a lifetime together. And that is the name of this

00:48:29.730 - 00:48:40.470

section because there is a long poem in there about Acer and I won't read that, I'll leave that for you to read when you go to the bookstore. I'm going to read a couple of short ones. This one is called:

00:48:40.530 - 00:48:56.280

FUSION I see our features mirrored in our children, scattered at random among grandchildren, like gifts or prizes won. I watched them remembering your adolescence, your young manhood,

00:48:56.550 - 00:49:12.570

find I cannot recall a world before I knew you, or imagine a world without you, and I hold you closer, closer. And this one is called: LONG RUN PLAY, for my husband.

00:49:13.200 - 00:49:32.640

Amateurs, we opened without rehearsal, without repertoire, to mixed reviews. Learn to revise the script, to play with or without supporting cast. Our dialogue, costumes have altered, the scenery shifts, time passes, our technique improves. We now

00:49:32.640 - 00:49:50.380

use a minimum of props, dispense with makeup, masks, and stand in, no longer by for billing. Morton Marcus: Well, that is certainly one of the fine poems and a fine easy tracing of a metaphor for a marriage.

00:49:50.860 - 00:50:01.000

Unfortunately, not too many people will be able to write poems like that in the future, not because they can't think of the metaphors, but they don't have the experience anymore. Maude Meehan: Yes, it's sad isn't it?

00:50:01.000 - 00:50:17.080

Morton Marcus: Yes, very. Maude Meehan: Okay. I'd like to move on to the next section, which is called, "Harbinger." And you wrote a poem called, "The Angel Of Death Is Always With Me," and that was from,

00:50:17.110 - 00:50:35.140

"Big Winds, Glass Mornings, and Shadows Cast by Stars," and that book has always meant a great deal to me along with your other writing and. But that particular title really reached me because I've often had the feeling that death sits on my shoulder

00:50:37.270 - 00:50:47.200

because of my experiences with family deaths and the deaths of loved ones who are close to me. And the first poem in that section is called: HARBINGER

00:50:49.580 - 00:51:06.650

Death's visits are untimely, more frequent, he seeks out my loved ones, burrows into their luggage, crawls into pockets or purses as they pack for journeys. Lately he is visible. It is a secret that passes between us. I glimpse him in

00:51:06.650 - 00:51:24.470

depots, airports, fingering their tickets. His hand waves next to their hands as they leave. I wave back, my smile a rictus of [inaudible]. When they are distant, he's thrusts stained garments into my dreaming. I ran them, bind their

00:51:24.470 - 00:51:45.680

past sweetness in my hair, tangled and matted, snarled in dark ribbons I awaken, burn joss sticks, refuse messages. You know, Maxine Kumin talks about the history of loss in a person's life that continually exacts what she calls the effort

00:51:45.680 - 00:52:01.420

of consent. And I find myself ever closer to, if not consenting, at least accepting death in my life. It's a big giant step. Morton Marcus: Well, there are a lot of poems about deaths,

00:52:01.420 - 00:52:20.710

especially this section in the book. But the richness of the book, and this is why I say it's sort of a biography, is that there are so many other moods and celebrations and acceptances. And it's really the book of a person who has lived

00:52:20.710 - 00:52:32.800

life and has asked no quarter but has attempted, as I said, to make life better for others. And it's it's a wonderful testament, the volume is, so that's the way I look at it. It's just a wonderful testament.

00:52:32.840 - 00:52:52.000

Maude Meehan: Thank you, Mort. Is there anything from that section that you particularly were interested in? Morton Marcus: Well, there was, well, I got a lot of stuff here. I will let you read anything from, "Reflections In An Old

00:52:52.000 - 00:53:14.560

Mirror," I did like. I'm just looking at that for a second. I really liked how that worked. Maude Meehan: That poem was about the timespan between early young girlhood, I'd say thirteen to about forty-five. And from

00:53:14.560 - 00:53:31.200

there on in my consciousness seemed to change and this is: A REFLECTION IN AN OLD MIRROR Mirror, I held you in childish innocence, in ignorance, searching the don't-touch place, seeking the hidden wound that

00:53:31.200 - 00:53:51.870

spattered red across your face. Mirror, I turned away, confused and shy in my virginity and caught just there reflecting him, framing his grace as he knelt over me, wiping my blood from his warm cock. Mirror, I watched my baby born, watched in

00:53:51.870 - 00:54:10.410

your glaring ceiling eye the reddened skull, bulging and thrusting from my strapped, spreading thighs. My son burst forth in spurts of blood in sudden crimson beauty. Mirror, I held you to my baby's lips, begged that you steam and blur

00:54:10.410 - 00:54:30.150

with infant breath. Your cold, clear face reflected his, a tiny, pinched, blue mask, stained with dark blood. Mirror, though I shatter you in dreams, I cannot destroy what you have shown me. I am bled dry as the sound of your splinters,

00:54:30.300 - 00:54:47.070

cracking under my feet. Even in dreams, afraid to look down, see my reflection shattered in my own blood. Morton Marcus: Yeah, I- well a lot of what happens in these poems and you read some of them already, is that you choose just

00:54:47.070 - 00:55:07.260

the right metaphor. And with these, it's also in the marriage poem as a long play, with ease and with what does not seem any forcing whatsoever, you just move through vast areas of experience and say what you have to say and I- and that one, the

00:55:07.260 - 00:55:23.820

mirror idea is a fine metaphor, I'm sure young people have used it before, but to keep it in total control with these images of blood, blood of joy, blood of loss, and then in the end, the shattered mirror, which yet has a reflection, which in itself

00:55:23.820 - 00:55:36.270

may be shattered and you're afraid to look at. Everything has become so physical and concrete in this image, which is working in two levels at once that- it's a joy. And that was one of the reasons that I wanted you to read the poem, I mean I

00:55:36.270 - 00:55:56.170

just like it so much. Maude Meehan: I wish you'd come and talk to me about my poems. I never noticed all that. Thank you. You've written so many poems about your family and your grandparents and I'd like to

00:55:56.170 - 00:56:06.010

read one of mine. Your work has influenced me a good deal as you can probably guess. Morton Marcus: Well, I'm honored. Maude Meehan: This is called:

00:56:06.010 - 00:56:20.370

GRAFFITO I find a snapshot in my father's drawer, a picture of the grandfather I never knew, small, stooped, yet dignified, he stands beside my brother's wicker pram, surrounded by his

00:56:20.370 - 00:56:38.040

family. My mother tells the story hidden in the past of the last time she saw him, tells me that she was big with child, and so allowed to sit while his two daughters served the sons who gathered at the table. Grandmother reigned as always at

00:56:38.040 - 00:56:56.280

the head, arranged the seating of those sons not in the order of their age, but of the weekly wage they earned and without question brought to her. I learned that you, my old gentle man, never at home in the new language, the new land, subdued

00:56:56.280 - 00:57:16.110

by failure, each passing year withdrew further into old world memories and silence. Rising that evening from the table, as usual, scarcely noticed as you went to lie down on your narrow bed. There was no sign, no signal, only that as you passed

00:57:16.110 - 00:57:32.340

you bent, with shy and unaccustomed show of tenderness, to murmur, "Liebchen," and kissed my mother's head. She tells me that I leaped and struggled in her womb when from your room you shattered silence with a shot, your life exploding

00:57:32.340 - 00:57:48.660

messages across blank walls in bursts of red. Morton Marcus: Yes, that's another poem that I had marked here for you to read, so. Maude Meehan: Well, you know, that poem was about four long

00:57:48.660 - 00:58:10.770

legal pages of writing, and I pulled out of it what was most important to me. And I find myself you know, nitpicking of every word it's like, a shower, the shower, my shower, a shower, just every single little word and it helps in a poem like that

00:58:10.770 - 00:58:24.330

that's so full of emotional content to be constantly aware of that because those emotional poems can run away with you. Morton Marcus: Yeah. Maude Meehan: And yours never do. And that's-

00:58:24.960 - 00:58:32.940

Morton Marcus: Well, when you said what you were doing to keep them down, that's exactly what I do, so it's the same method. Maude Meehan: Yeah. Morton Marcus: You got to realize they're a danger first,

00:58:32.940 - 00:58:39.730

and then you're halfway home. Maude Meehan: Yeah. Why don't I read something lighter from, "Out of Sync?" Morton Marcus: Okay.

00:58:39.880 - 00:58:55.870

Maude Meehan: Okay, and I always tell my audiences when I do readings that they should never consort with writers. This is: OUT OF SYNC, and you can spell that either way. My neighbor is orderly as an alphabet. Her footsteps are

00:58:55.870 - 00:59:13.720

predictable, familiar with maps and signposts. Without her, there would be pandemonium. Screened from her sight by the Nicotiana bush, I succumb to its swoony smell, hummingbirds' beaks dart into its blossoms. The unflappable lady peers over

00:59:13.720 - 00:59:31.860

the railing, discovered my sticky chin and fake wings. Morton Marcus: Could I, as time begins to in this all two short hour fade away from us, can I ask you to read one more poem from the section and then one poem about sisterhood in the,

00:59:31.890 - 00:59:41.970

"Woman Tree," section and that is very simply, "Summer," a delightful, wonderful poem and then any poem you want from, "Woman Tree." Maude Meehan: Okay.

00:59:42.540 - 00:59:57.960

SUMMER Apricots ripen, plump monks sunning in saffron robes. And let's see, "Son's Birthday." No, I think I'm going to read: DRUM TALK

00:59:58.710 - 01:00:16.740

Next door, each day, all day, you play, Reggae, blues, country western, hot top 40 at top volume, the heavy beat of bass thumps through thin walls, each night, all night, the slightly turned down blanket of your music slides inside my dreams

01:00:16.740 - 01:00:32.680

and sends them winding reel to reel. Tomorrow, I'm buying bongos. Morton Marcus: We have been talking with Maude Meehan whose Collected Poems, "Chipping Bone," has just come out from

01:00:33.190 - 01:00:54.370

Ember Press. And tomorrow night, Maude Meehan will be signing her book at 7pm tomorrow night, that's Thursday, 7pm, Bookshop Santa Cruz, and I hope you will all come out. She will also be giving a brief reading there, so do go and hear her read at her

01:00:54.370 - 01:01:15.310

booksigning. And then on November 26th, when Lucille Clifton, Gail Rosier, Maude, and Patrice Vecchione will give the final reading at the Celebration of the Muse readings. And then we- which will be the final one of the year, that's at Louden

01:01:15.310 - 01:01:30.160

Nelson and it's at 7:30pm, and there's a donation of $3.50 at the door. Do we have time? We're going to have one more poem by Maude. And this is actually the last poem in the book, isn't it? Maude Meehan: Yes.

01:01:30.190 - 01:01:35.620

Morton Marcus: And why don't you tell us about it and just read it. Maude Meehan: I'll just read it. THE NAVE ALLIANCE

01:01:36.080 - 01:01:52.460

Every woman who knows that she has been patronized or trivialized, every woman who has been called weak, called neurotic, called hysterical, and who among you has not been named. Every woman whose aging has rendered her invisible, or

01:01:52.460 - 01:02:08.420

by her youth or age has been seen as powerless. Every woman who has known poverty, who has watched her children's eyes grow dull, who has heard the sound of their bellies growling. Every woman who has been stunned by the weight of her own

01:02:08.420 - 01:02:26.360

revelation, look to all women, to the old for their wisdom, to the young for their daring. Turn to your sisters whose skin is the color of honey, the color of earth, the color of almonds, look into their lives and wait for their knowledge, make a

01:02:26.360 - 01:02:39.450

bridge of your sharing. Joining together, we come to our power, joining together, new strength is born. Thank you, Marton. Morton Marcus: My pleasure. I really wish you the best of luck

01:02:39.450 - 01:02:56.550

with the book and it was wonderful having you on the show. Next week, Joe will be here with me and that is the Joe Stroud, and we will be interviewing and listening to the Greek translator, editor, wonderful poet by the name of

01:02:56.550 - 01:03:12.120

Eleni Fourtouni who will be in the area. We'll talk about that more next week. I'd like to thank Plaza Books for their donation that has made this hour possible. And I would like to remind everyone out there that within the next minute, Leon

01:03:12.120 - 01:03:20.250

Allen will be cooking up some very tasty jazz in The Jazz Kitchen. Thank you again, Maude. It was a wonderful, wonderful show.