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Morton Marcus: Good evening everybody. The music you're hearing in the background is the music of Bali. And this is your host, Mort Marcus, welcoming you to a very special event on the Poetry Show. I'll be telling you about that in a minute. But

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right now I would like to thank Stapleton's Natural Foods Grocery for providing support that helps to make the first half hour of the Poetry Show possible. Stapleton's Natural Foods Grocery specializes in organic and commercial products

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at 415 River Street in Santa Cruz. Thank you very much, Stapleton's. And as I said tonight, we are going to the far off south seas and Bali, and hear about a very special poetry, a very special art which really, every year I think, is

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taking more and more of America into its bosom because America is more and more interested in what is going on in Bali and especially in gamelan. And it is to gamelan that we will be going tonight but talking about it in a way that maybe it's not talked

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about a lot in the West, and that is the poetry of gamelan music. And we have as our guest tonight, Judy Slattum and Made Surya who is a Balinese chanter and we will welcome them right now as I pop the music down. Judy has taught for years at- in

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the drama department at Cabrillo. She has now been for the last several years involved in Balinese cultur, and she is currently writing a book on masks. And as I said, Surya has been a chanter and a reciter of poetry in the gamelan orchestra

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and performance tradition. What I'm going to ask, first of all, I'm going to welcome both of the people. Surya, welcome to the show. Made Surya: Thank you, Mort.

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Morton Marcus: Okay, you're going to have to speak a little louder, Surya. Made Surya: Sorry? Morton Marcus: Let's say that again. Say hello.

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Made Surya: Hello. Morton Marcus: Good. Made Surya: How are you? Morton Marcus: Now you're registering. What I'm doing is

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I'm making sure that you're registering. Made Surya: All right. Morton Marcus: And Judy Slattum who is your wife and also your colleague in bringing gamelan to America. Judy, welcome.

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Judy Slattum: Thank you. Morton Marcus: Great, we're on the air. The first question I would like to ask, certainly, is just what is the relationship, let's say, between gamelan music and poetry to what we know as

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poetry over here. How does it differ? How is it similar? What are its purposes, and how is it performed? So either one of you can take that question. Made Surya: Okay, I think here can say that the difference

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between the poetry in Bali and the United States so far that I know that most of the poetry in Bali is sacred and it's learned by some people and always taught by the high priests and usually they chant in a group and in temple festivals or in the

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ceremony. And so I would say the poetry in Bali is from- connected with a religious event. Judy Slattum: Yeah, the basis of the religion there is animistic from way far back and now their religion is called Bali Hindu.

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And people believe there are invisible forces that control what is happening, invisible forces, the forces of nature at work, demonic forces that are coming from below, and then there are spirits also from above, and then there's a middle

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world that's in between. And everything's related to a struggle between these two forces to retain the balance, and the people believe that that balance is achieved through art, basically, through performance, through music and dance and

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ritual. And those rituals happen at temple festivals and that's where the poetry enters in. And almost all the people on the island take part in these rituals, so almost all the people in the islands, on the island itself, are involved in

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art. And that's where I think this kind of phrase that's bandied about comes from that says that everyone's an artist in Bali, because all the people do take part in this. The artistic performances are what makes the temples work and the

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temples make the society work, even economically. It's an interesting cycle there. Poetry was brought originally from India, actually by traders, but it came when India was in its golden age. And they-

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Morton Marcus: Around what year was that? Made Surya: First century. Morton Marcus: First century. Made Surya: Yeah.

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Judy Slattum: And they arrived actually in Java, and Bali' culture is derived originall from Java. Although Jav abandoned Hinduism, thoroughly basically by the 15th century it was happening before then, b t by the 15th century it was gon

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and Java was Muslim. And no Bali is a little Hindu outpos in a mostly Muslim Indonesia. S they've kind of preserved th Javanese culture during the tim when it was in its flower. Thes Sanskrit poets, poetry, the anskrit poetry that these

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traders brought was epic and he oic and it talked of fantasti people and events and times t at were meant to be mimicked. T ey were set up as role models and the idea was that you lea ned from hearing the poetr and the stories of the idea

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ways of being. And eventually, hen, the poetry became realit at some levels in Bali, it wa Morton Marcus: What do you mean by reality? People began to act heroically or-?

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Judy Slattum: Yes, yeah, according to the literature, because eventually they had their own heroes and role models too that are part of the poetry, poetic tradition now. Morton Marcus: So let's say characters from the Ramayana.

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Judy Slattum: That's a very important part of the rituals, and many of the dramas are based on the Ramayana story. Some of the most important ones, or everyone knows the Ramayana over there, and it's performed over and over again in many different

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forms and variations. It's always sung, it's always sung in poetry, and poetry is always sung there and chanted, it's never spoken. Morton Marcus: This is a big difference, it is part of the

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overall performing arts. Judy Slattum: Yes. Morton Marcus: I take it this is one of the reasons why you've really fallen in love with it, because it seems to be a

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complete unity of all the arts which now are being performed, and you yourself have been so dedicated to the performing arts. Judy Slattum: Well, drama, drama is written in poetry.

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Morton Marcus: Mhm. Judy Slattum: That's- basically 80% of the dialogue, as you might call it, of drama is poetry and the rest is improvised, so it's not recorded.

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Morton Marcus: Right, it's all part of an oral tradition. Judy Slattum: [Cross talk] improvised part is the- of course the poetry is recorded, it's written down. Morton Marcus: And the improvisation is how it becomes

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new with each generation and each new chanter. Judy Slattum: Right. They apply current events and local facts and humor basically to it- to make it palatable and interesting and liven it up, you know, for the local people.

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Because the problem is, of course, it's written in a language that no one speaks anymore. Morton Marcus: Which is Sanskrit. Judy Slattum: Yes.

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Morton Marcus: And so therefore Surya, you are going to be chanting, maybe singing for us later on. And you are going to be doing this in Sanskrit? Made Surya: Yeah. Part in Sanskrit and I would say it's a

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mix between Sanskrit and old Javanese language. Sometimes they call it Kawi, Bahasa Kawi, and that's what I will chant on. Judy Slattum: Kawi is no longer spoken either, so it's two archaic languages that this poetry is written in.

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Judy Slattum: Of course. Morton Marcus: Great. Now, just to make this clear for the listeners out there, we were saying -- and it's a great Morton Marcus: And I think that Surya is one of those people, he

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introduction you just gave, Judy -- that everyone is an artist on Bali, okay? Because everyone partakes in these festivals in one way or another. But there have to be some people who are separated from the masses, who become the artists who really

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carry all of gamelan to the heights in which it can be performed in each generation, is that correct? is a professional, if there is such a thing, chanter and performer.

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Judy Slattum: Well, Surya specializes -- excuse me, cut in if you want to -- Surya specializes in a certain song that is in the archaic language. He is known for that; when the need comes for that song to be performed, he is approached. So

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in that case, he's a specialist. He probably specializes more in dance than singing, it's more versatile, but there are- there are certain songs that he knows and those songs are poetry. True specialists, it would be more specific to say that they are

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priests, because priest performers sing most of the poetry, and most of the religious ceremony is chanted and sung with- in poetry by high priests. Morton Marcus: Okay, Surya.

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Made Surya: Yeah? Morton Marcus: Let me ask you, um, you are an expert in one song, alright, which song is that, the one you sing? Made Surya: Well, the song that I sing, I mean, I specialize on

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is the song for the cremation ceremony. Made Surya: And also for tooth-filing ceremony. Morton Marcus: Okay. Morton Marcus: Okay, and what was that last one?

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Made Surya: The tooth-filing. Morton Marcus: Oh, filing of the teeth. Made Surya: Filings, yeah. And that's mainly what I studied. Morton Marcus: Okay, now, how did you study and say, first of

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all, were you selected, or did you get interested as a young boy or teenager or young adult? Made Surya: Okay, first, there's no such a- back when I was young, there's no school that teach you how to sing, how to

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chant. But basically, we learn from the society which is this old people, you know, my grandfather and my father went to this community hall, and we gather together and some of them play gamelan and some of them singing, and so I learned from,

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then I approached my father to give me more information about what poetry and songs in temple festival really is. Morton Marcus: And how old were you at this time? Made Surya: At that time I was eight years old and then I start

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to learn about my culture at that age. And when I was nine years old, I start to dance, the first dance I took was Baris Dance the warrior dance. And my father told me that because okay, if you learn or if you study dance, you have to take

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singing lessons because later on you have to sing while you dance. So that's mostly of the Balinese dance basically come with the song, something like that, yes. Morton Marcus: Okay, would many young boys and/or girls do this

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and follow these progressions, or because you became interested in this, did this begin to separate you out from the rest of the population? Made Surya: Not really, no, because if they don't learn to

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sing or to study the poetry.then they will study gamelan, or they will study the martial art, or they will study the art of making offerings and things like that. So basically in, for example, like in temple festivals, we come together and

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those who know how to sing those things and so, who know how to play gamelan they will go to play gamelan. Morton Marcus: Mhm. Made Surya: So I would say it does not separate us from the

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society. Morton Marcus: Okay at what point then did you go on and become, I take it, different from the other people who are generally taking part in the ceremonies, generally learning

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about gamelan and generally learning about singing and dancing? Made Surya: Okay, I will go beyond that, which is knowing more philosophically. What it really mean, it's not just a

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written part of the song, and I like to know more about say, why we are here in this world and things like that, you know. And also, I would like to know more about why we in Bali make certain offerings for certain days, and also, also why we sing

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a certain song in a special ceremony, in a ceremony. Morton Marcus: Okay, so you began asking these questions, and you were how old at this point? Made Surya: At that point I was about twelve years old, yeah.

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Morton Marcus: Okay, now when he heard that- I take it you asked your father these questions? Made Surya: Mhm. Morton Marcus: And when he heard that, then what did he do? Did

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he then turn you over to a priest or send you to the priest? Made Surya: No, uh, basically, my father is a priest, is also a priest and so he has a lot of books on Hindu philosophy as

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well as- Morton Marcus: And he also knows the chanting and the dancing and everything like that? Made Surya: Yes, the mantra, the mudras, and things like that.

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Morton Marcus: Okay. Made Surya: Yes. Morton Marcus: Could you tell us very briefly for the listeners out there what a madra and a mudra are and the difference

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between them? Made Surya: The mantra is the sacred chant. Morton Marcus: Yeah, words with [cross talk] meaning. Made Surya: Yes and the mudras is the movement of your hand

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during the chanting. Yeah, that has symbols or some symbol. If you move your hand in a certain way, it has a certain symbol. Say like, to say this chant is to go to the god Shiva, you know, and your hand will move a certain way that symbolizes

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Shiva. Morton Marcus: Mhm. Made Surya: So that's the mudra. Morton Marcus: And the mudra begins to get into dance itself

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then? Made Surya: Yes, yes. Morton Marcus: Okay and then you study these, and you studied with your father for how long?

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Made Surya: About five years. Morton Marcus: Five years. Made Surya: Yes. Morton Marcus: And after that time, you're now seventeen. And

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after that time- Made Surya: Correct. Morton Marcus: You were ready to perform. Made Surya: Yes, basically performed Baris in a temple

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festival in my village. Morton Marcus: Yes. Now, this may sound very strange, it's really a Western question: did people at that time recognize that you had mastered a whole load of movement and/or song,

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and therefore, at that point, you began to appear in other people's eyes as a performer extraordinaire, someone who was way beyond the general performer? Made Surya: I don't think so because I didn't perform this a

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lot of, just in a temple festival. And also, in a temple festival I like to join the what you call it, the song club, or? Morton Marcus: The chorus? Made Surya: Yes, the chorus, yes. And so I just, I feel at

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this time I feel that I'm very much the same with the rest of the people over there, and they didn't talk that I have such a talent or ability to do those kind of things, yeah. Morton Marcus: They did or they did not say?

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Made Surya: They do not. Morton Marcus: They do not say that, okay. Now, are you looking for them to say that? I mean, is that what- you're looking to perform as best you can so that you are the best performer in

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what you do? Let's say that this is what would happen in the West, you see. Is that what happens in Bali? Made Surya: Yeah, they want to be the best singer, the best dancer and things like that, but mostly what they do is they

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dedicate it to the society, to their religions, right, so there's no ego involved in it. Morton Marcus: Right. Made Surya: Yeah and most of the dance and the things to say that

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we do in Bali is not commercial, I would say, yeah. Morton Marcus: That's okay. I mean money or ego, I wasn't looking for that, I was just looking for, you know, did you attain an expertise? Am I asking questions in the right area,

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Judy? Judy Slattum: Yeah, I think probably I was the one that set this off because I specifically said people come to his house to ask him to do this one song. And it is because he does it well,

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and he knows it and it's also the flavor that he adds to it. You know, when he's asked to sing or asked to perform, that element is a recognition of a certain kind of expertise, I think there's an element of modesty coming in here. And

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also, because the dances are dedicated always to the religion that people are hesitant to want to appear ambitious at any level or competitive with each other, you know, because the idea basically, at every performance, there's always an offering

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placed in the middle of the performance space. And every performance is dedicated to the gods and goddesses and that's basically, everyone tries to offer something at a temple festival. And if you're an artist, you offer your talent.

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You know, as a musician, as a dancer, as a singer, as a chanter, you know, they're all considered equally as important, you know. Everybody has their own thing to offer. Morton Marcus: So if Surya walks down the street, okay, of the

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village, people would refer to him -- let's say, I was just visiting as a tourist -- and someone, they would say hello, Surya, and you'd go by, what would they say to me about Surya? Would they say he is a chanter in gamelan? Is that how

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they would identify him? He is one of our fine chanters? Judy Slattum: Well, when he does sing, it's actually a capella. And gamelan is specifically the orchestral music. Morton Marcus: Okay.

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Judy Slattum: When he dances, he dances with gamelan music. Morton Marcus: Right. Judy Slattum: But when he sings, he actually sings a capella. Morton Marcus: Okay, and that would just be- how would that be

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termed then? [unintelligible] terming, everything gamelan- Judy Slattum: What is the word that they use for that, Surya? Made Surya: The- Judy Slattum: What is the singer called?

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Made Surya: The singer called, just- Judy Slattum: Someone who sings poetry, they're called? Made Surya: Tukang kidung. Morton Marcus: Tukang kidung?

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Judy Slattum: Tukang is worker, so kidung is? Made Surya: Kidung is- Judy Slattum: Poetry worker? Made Surya: A song.

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Judy Slattum: Song worker. Morton Marcus: [Cross talk] Right, therefore, when he walked by, would they identify him then as the song worker, one of the song workers? In other words, would that be how he was

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identified? Made Surya: Sometimes they call me a singer. Morton Marcus: And that's how they'd identified you. It's like if I was in Spain, for example-

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Made Surya: Yeah. Morton Marcus: And a fellow walked by in a business suit, you know, someone is able to say, "Oh, that is Juan Hernandez, he is the torero," the great toreador, you see, and

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I'd say, "Oh!" And so would they do the same thing with Surya? Judy Slattum: Well, the kind of songs that he sings, no one becomes famous, maybe within your village or within your community you're known for that, but they're not recorded on

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records and it's sacred and special and very necessary. I mean- they absolutely- [cross talk] Morton Marcus: Would they know him on the rest of the island, you know, outside his own community?

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Judy Slattum: No, I don't think as a singer because every community has their own singer that specializes in these songs. Morton Marcus: I see. Judy Slattum: And it's not the kind of thing that they would

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record or become famous at. Morton Marcus: Okay, I got it. I mean, okay, I think we've answered that question. What's so interesting so far is, of course, that commercialism as far as poetry is concerned in

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the West, that's equal to what it is in Bali. But the fact that the ego is not in there, and you answer these questions so modestly, that is a great difference. And it is something that a lot of poets out there can really listen to to become

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self-effacing, because I'm afraid in the West, the ego gets tremendously involved with what you're doing, and especially since it's not commercial, so this is a very big difference. And I'm sure that the religious aspect, the spiritual aspect

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that the whole thing provides to that, and just the attitude of Hinduism as well. Well, let's get on to the poetry itself. And why don't you, because we've been talking about it, why don't we get into it and actually hear, tell us about a part of a

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poem and then maybe recite it and then you may want to sing it. I'll give you all how you want to build up to this, so it'll be your own way of doing it. Made Surya: You mean that's-

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Morton Marcus: In fact, what I'd like to do and since we've talked about it- Made Surya: Yeah. Morton Marcus: Is either this half of the program which we're

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just about to end, or the next half, that could you sing the song that you are known for, the cremation song, and also the teeth- it's the same song I take it? Made Surya: It's a different song.

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Morton Marcus: Different songs. Made Surya: Yes. Morton Marcus: Good, I'm glad to know that because they are [laughs] a little different rituals.

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Made Surya: Yes, they are. Morton Marcus: Though, maybe equally as painful. Okay, why don't- can you give us a short poem because we are going to take our half-hour break. So could you just sort of talk

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about a poem, a short piece, or part of a poem. Made Surya: Okay. Morton Marcus: And then recite it for us after maybe you tell us what it means in English.

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Made Surya: All right, all right. [Chanting] Morton Marcus: Okay, good, now describe what you're singing and when you would sing it and things like that.

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Made Surya: Okay, usefully, this piece of poetry they sing in a temple during the temple festival, I mean, in general temple festival. The meaning of this piece is that to those who are looking for the great love and they have to find it in

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offerings with dedications to all gods and goddesses and to those who are looking for peace, they have to look into the offerings, and within the offering you will find your need and your desire, and for those all you have to base your pray

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in dedications. I hope that's- my accent is very, very rough. I can't translate it really. Morton Marcus: Right, I understand just the general meaning. Okay and that's why it would be performed at all temple

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ceremonies. This is talking about the offerings itself and what they mean. Made Surya: It can be the, from my perspective, the offering can be flowers and things like that. But in deepers sense, deepest

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meaning can be your dedication to yourself, what you can offer to this world for peace or for whatever. Morton Marcus: So the flowers and everything are just outward manifestation.

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Made Surya: Yes. Morton Marcus: What you yourself are really- Made Surya: Right. Morton Marcus: -from your heart.

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Made Surya: That's what it is. Yeah. Morton Marcus: Very nice. Well, that is a perfect place to stop for this half hour and next half hour we'll have much more poetry and get into talking about specific poems and songs. Okay?

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Made Surya: Okay. Morton Marcus: Okay, so, we will now have our musical break and I'll be back in a few moments. [Cut off] -have even one more announcement and that is from

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our guests and that concerns very simply the- the gamelan for the three gamelan performances that will be happening at Cabrillo College. Judy, why don't you tell us about that? Judy Slattum: The famous composer Lou Harrison was

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teaching gamelan at Cabrillo College and recently retired, and he while he was there, of course, it was tremendously popular and there was a group of students who were extremely saddened by the fact that he retired although they

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acknowledged his right to do so. And they wanted to keep gamelan happening at Cabrillo College. They went to the administration and they said "What can we do to have this class continue?" The administration basically said, "You must come up with the

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instruments and we will get you an instructor." And well, when he was teaching, of course, he had a full orchestra that he graciously lent the students. So now they are a very energetic, well organized and dedicated group of people who want very

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much to see this happen. And they approached us to do the first of a series of three benefit concerts for them. And we were happy to do so, and keep seeing gamelan and Indonesian arts in general, thrive and grow in this community. So we'll be

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performing at the first of these benefit concerts. It'll be April 29, is Friday night at 7:30pm. And then Cabrillo College Students Center and Suryra will be performing three traditional Balinese topping dances, mass dances, and in between, I'll be

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showing slides and talking about traditional mass dance in Bali, material that I gathered when I was doing research for the book I did, and I'll be showing slides, photographs taken by Paul Schraub, the noted local photographer that are slides

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that will be used eventually in the book. So we'll be basically covering Surya's costume changes, but hopefully entertaining people and enlightening them about this art form well in between the performances that he'll be

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doing. Morton Marcus: And so that's this Friday. Judy Slattum: Right. Morton Marcus: At the Cabrillo College Theater.

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Judy Slattum: Right, and anyone that- Morton Marcus: At eight o'clock? Judy Slattum: At 7:30. Morton Marcus: I'm sorry, 7:30.

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Judy Slattum: And anyone who's interested in that can call the Cabrillo College box office and it's 479-6331 and we'll mention that again at the end of the show. 479-6331 and then there's the- there are some additional performances probably the most

00:30:35.910 - 00:30:52.860

exciting is the Gamelan Sekar Jaya which is the foremost Balinese gamelan group in Northern California, will be coming in on Friday, May 6, and performing also at Cabrillo College. Gamelan Sekar Jaya was invited to- by the governor of

00:30:52.860 - 00:31:07.320

Bali to perform in Bali and this- we- Surya actually was in Bali at the time it happened and he was the interpreter for the video crew, the crew that filmed the group while they were there, so he was with them during their whole concert tour and was at

00:31:07.320 - 00:31:20.460

the governor's dinner and so on and, and knows all of them quite well. They're very, very dedicated. They've been at it a long time. And they're great. The Balinese we're really excited to see, and astonished, you know, to see Americans

00:31:20.460 - 00:31:28.620

performing Balinese gamelan of all things, right? Made Surya: And dance too. Judy Slattum: And dance too. Yeah. Morton Marcus: Would you say that Bali is sort of inundated

00:31:28.620 - 00:31:39.910

with Americans who are gobbling Indonesian culture? Judy Slattum: No, not really. We're- we're in the minority. Morton Marcus: So Surya is giving me a very knowing smile. Judy Slattum: Well, the number of people- in terms of the

00:31:39.910 - 00:31:51.610

number of the people that come is 400,000, you know, round- rounded off tourists per year that come to Bali, most of them actually aren't interested in culture. They're Australians, mainly, who are coming there because of the cheap holiday and

00:31:51.610 - 00:32:06.970

they go to the sort of tourist centers. The area that we live in, the area we bring our study tours to, is known as the cultural area. There are more Americans there, and I think basically because it's so far for us to go it's a real rite of

00:32:06.970 - 00:32:18.880

passage to get there. It takes a long time to get there. It's very expensive to travel there. I mean, the air ticket alone is quite high. So most Americans that come there are very serious minded and they want to see and discover the culture, and

00:32:18.910 - 00:32:25.890

actually not many do get that far, but the ones that do tend- tend to come to do research. Morton Marcus: How many people are on the island of Bali as such?

00:32:25.920 - 00:32:33.060

Judy Slattum: Two million. Morton Marcus: Well, there are two people on the island? Oh! Judy Slattum: It's a very small island; it's surprising considering how well known it is. And it's only 90 miles long

00:32:33.060 - 00:32:43.920

and 50 miles wide, sorry, 90 miles wide and 50 miles long. Morton Marcus: And you get the feeling that you're crowded when when you're there? I mean is there a lot of people, because I my imagination -- I've never been there -- is that there are-

00:32:43.920 - 00:32:54.660

you have these communities that seem that- like they're separated from each other. Judy Slattum: Right, and then- and they are, 60% of the island is covered by rice fields. And then there's also jungles, of

00:32:54.660 - 00:33:10.290

course. I think it doesn't feel crowded because the people live in clusters and villages. They prefer to live together, close together, the family unit there is really tight, the social structure is real strong. And so you don't find people who are

00:33:10.290 - 00:33:19.980

land hungry. Living in- Morton Marcus: No developers? [Laughs] Judy Slattum: No developers. No, no, that kind of thing doesn't happen. So it does feel like there's a fair amount of space

00:33:19.980 - 00:33:30.000

considering how many people there are. Morton Marcus: Great. Well, let us go right into the poetry. Um, I think you have one more to announce. Maybe we'll save that for the end. But this hour is going so fast. I think it's the

00:33:30.000 - 00:33:43.690

fastest hour I've ever done. Shall we talk very briefly about four rites of passage and then Surya will sing us some of the song poems from it? Judy Slattum: Yeah, this is like a sort of introduction to what

00:33:43.690 - 00:33:56.530

these rituals are there. In every Balinese's life there are four important rites of passage that are parallel to I think most societies: Birth is the first one. It happens at six months in Bali. At that point, it's generally considered that a

00:33:56.530 - 00:34:10.030

child is going to live, that, you know, they- They're there to stay. They've- they've gone through the hazardous stage of infancy, and they're going to be around. So they're actually given a name, their hair is cut, and their feet are allowed to

00:34:10.030 - 00:34:21.100

touch the earth for the first time. Prior to that time, they're always carried because it's felt like their soul is very sacred and close to the gods. And so they're too sacred to actually touch the ground. And there's a ceremony held in

00:34:21.100 - 00:34:38.770

their honor and it's- of the four rites of passage, it's the least elaborate and, of course, the least expensive. The next most important one could be compared to, well, a confirmation ceremony in a Christian church, Bar Mitzvah or

00:34:38.770 - 00:34:58.240

Bat Mitzvah in Judaism. It's a puberty ceremony, and it's the tooth filing ceremony. And at that point, a young boy or girl has their- their canine teeth filed down to be made even, and it's felt that the- the sort of what's comparable to Seven

00:34:58.240 - 00:35:13.810

Deadly Sins are manifest in these canines, it's like the canines are what likens us to animals. So it releases the, the negative energy that's stored in these teeth. And it makes them- it sort of prepares them to meet all the complexities that greet

00:35:13.810 - 00:35:25.930

adults, you know, in the- in the real adult world as opposed to children. And there's another ceremony held that's more complex and more elaborate and more expensive. And then there's the marriage ceremony, of course, which is

00:35:26.530 - 00:35:42.730

even more elaborate. And then the most, the most fantastical ceremony of all is actually held at cremation, when the soul of the person is released to return to the heavens. To prepare for another incarnation, the body is reduced to ashes, and it in turn

00:35:43.030 - 00:36:00.850

is thrown to the sea. It's sort of like the sea is the- represents the lowest form and- and the ashes go there because that's the low form of the body, whereas the soul, which is the high form, goes upward to the- to the gods and to the spirits,

00:36:01.150 - 00:36:17.230

and the cremations are- are the biggest ritual, you know, that a human being will actually go through in their entire life cycle in Bali. So the two songs that Surya will probably sing now are from the crem- the tooth filing ceremony, the- the rite

00:36:17.230 - 00:36:31.500

of passage that has to do with adolescence into adulthood, and the cremation ceremony which has to do with death. Morton Marcus: Oh, fantastic introduction and all in three minutes Judy, fairly amazing. Surya I've got these two records

00:36:31.530 - 00:36:43.470

all up here. The first one was the second part of the shadow play and the other was the- that French Balinese record on [unidentified] Which one- do you want me to put any of those on while you're chanting or-?

00:36:44.400 - 00:36:52.230

Made Surya: You can put this on. Morton Marcus: Yeah. Okay. And it was phase two of part one. Part one, phase two. Made Surya: Phase two. Yeah.

00:36:53.550 - 00:37:00.960

Morton Marcus: Side- side one, part two, side one? Made Surya: Right. Morton Marcus: Okay, I'm going to play that and you are now going to do the- the the teeth filing song for which you are

00:37:00.990 - 00:37:06.000

well known. Made Surya: Yes. Morton Marcus: Okay, I'm going to put this on and I'm going to put it on very low. So it's just in the background.

00:37:06.000 - 00:39:29.190

Made Surya: All right. Morton Marcus: Okay, here we go. Made Surya: [Chanting] Morton Marcus: Okay, could you give us some of the words for

00:39:29.190 - 00:39:44.100

that? We know generally what the- the ceremony is about, but could you just sort of generally, roughly give us the sense. I hope I've got had the right record here. I really do. And you can see the- Surya cannot hear the record while

00:39:44.100 - 00:39:57.180

he's chanting because when the mics are open, none of that music comes through. It's automatic that it's cut off. So that's the devil thing. You can't hear it now. Can you? I mean, I can hear it in my earphones now. Yeah. So that as

00:39:57.180 - 00:40:08.730

long as the mic is open, we can't- you can't hear the music the same time. Maybe what I should have done is given you a set of earphones. Anyway, go on! Made Surya: Yeah, basically, I would like to explain this song.

00:40:11.880 - 00:40:32.820

It's telling us about the ceremony that the Pandava in the Mahabharata story, when they have the tooth filing ceremony and what that really means. It's to release the, the- devil part in your body, I would say, and your character and things like

00:40:32.820 - 00:40:56.280

that, and that's why they symbolize they cut the canine, because in- in Hindu philosophy that animals symbolized with the fang and things like that. So we as human beings don't want to be associated with animal that's symbolized, they cut the canine,

00:40:56.280 - 00:41:09.210

and that's basically the essence of that song. Morton Marcus: Okay, the next one. Judy, do you want to introduce it? Or Surya? Just- Made Surya: Yeah, I think I will go right to-

00:41:09.780 - 00:41:18.240

Morton Marcus: Do you want me to put on the other record for this, without hearing what's going on here? Made Surya: No, this is- this is fine. Morton Marcus: Okay, now this record is off now. So-

00:41:19.860 - 00:41:30.510

Judy Slattum: Probably with this song, it's better for it to be off. The other one actually would happen at a religious ceremony. And it could be that the dhalang, the shadow puppeteer, would be performing at the same time that the song

00:41:30.510 - 00:41:41.220

was being sung, and you would actually hear this music being played. This is music for the shadow puppet theater. It's a very beautiful kind of Balinese gamelan. It's very, very popular.

00:41:41.280 - 00:41:51.120

Made Surya: Yeah. And also they use this music for -for the tooth-filing ceremony too. Judy Slattum: Yeah. So it was very appropriate that that was actually being played then. The song that Surya is going to sing

00:41:51.120 - 00:41:58.900

now, usually there's no music at all happening. Morton Marcus: It's a capella. Judy Slattum: It is. Yeah. Morton Marcus: And this is the song of cremation?

00:41:58.900 - 00:44:33.030

Made Surya: For the cremation service, yeah. [Chanting] It's [unidentified] Morton Marcus: Is that it?

00:44:33.150 - 00:44:47.580

Made Surya: Yeah. This piece. Morton Marcus: Okay, could you give us any of the lines or any of the direct- the direct tra slation of that in any way so e might be able to get maybe som of the sense of the words the

00:44:47.580 - 00:45:04.140

selves? Made Surya: Mm hmm. Okay, uh, basically this is the stories of Mahabharata a piece of the stories from Mahabharata. When [unidentified] which means when this great hero, the Panchala

00:45:04.140 - 00:45:38.440

Kumara in the Mahabharata story died, and his grandfather, they sang [unidentified]. That means, the heroes die in a war in battle in Kurukshetra. And his grandfather, the king [unidentified] tried to prepare

00:45:38.440 - 00:46:11.470

this- this great ceremony for them because they're such a great hero. The ceremony has a meaning to release, to show- to come back to the God Indra and will the- give it a bless for- for- for the rest of the family. And I think that's the- how you

00:46:11.470 - 00:46:21.800

do the first three lines. Morton Marcus: Okay, I won't ask any more. I realize how difficult that is, but it really does show it's something that Judy said in the beginning of the show, which is how these

00:46:21.800 - 00:46:33.950

heroic dramas really have become part of the whole religious ceremony in Bali. Let me ask you one question, which may seem ridiculous but doesn't to me: Have any Balinese groups ever gone to India? To perform?

00:46:34.440 - 00:46:49.880

Made Surya: Yes, they do, even to study there, like Mr. Espandit(?). He used to be the- the director of Cultural Council in Indonesia, and he studied in New Delhi. Morton Marcus: Uh huh.

00:46:49.900 - 00:46:57.790

Made Surya: Yeah. And he studied Sanskrit and he teaches in Bali. Morton Marcus: But do they actually perform, do groups actually go and perform? Yeah. Yes, they do.

00:46:56.370 - 00:47:11.130

I would think so. I mean, it's- it's almost like it's keeping a cient Indian culture in almost a pure form in many ways. It r ally is fascinating. Well, we h ve run out of time, believe it or not, and I just think this is an absolutely fascinatin

00:47:11.130 - 00:47:30.480

evening. You people may have b en wondering what's been going on out there. We have been talki g to Judy Slattum and E. Made Su ya about gamelan music and pecifically about the poetry sid of gamelan music. You were a so saying that now there are

00:47:30.480 - 00:47:37.970

oetry clubs, where actually y ung chanters or singers li e yourself- Made Surya: Yes. Morton Marcus: -meet and discuss interpretations.

00:47:37.970 - 00:47:51.620

Made Surya: Right, and usually in a full moon and the big, biggest temple and the bazar in the Puri Jagannatha, in the center, the center of the town, and we'll have a meeting and discuss the meanings and what is this really means and-

00:47:52.020 - 00:47:58.110

Morton Marcus: Would this include poets from other communities as well? Judy Slattum: All over Bali? Made Surya: All over Bali. Yes.

00:47:58.540 - 00:48:10.930

Morton Marcus: That's great, man. That would be- we call it a poetry festival. I think what you're doing is a little more serious. Judy, thank you so much. Um, would you mind going out and again telling about the three performances? Now Judy is

00:48:10.930 - 00:48:24.870

talking about our three benefit performances for the Cabrillo College gamelan group to continue their work and get some instruments. So, Judy, just tell us about it. Judy Slattum: Yeah, we'll- we'll be doing a special performance

00:48:25.320 - 00:48:39.540

on April 29 at the Cabrillo College Student Center at 7:30 called, "Mask, Myth and Magic of Bali". Surya will be performing three traditional [unidentified] mask dances and I'll be talking about and showing slides o traditional Balinese mask drama

00:48:39.930 - 00:48:52.770

And then the following Frida night Gamelan Sekar Jaya fro Berkeley is coming in on Apri 6, and they'll be performing i the same place too. These ar benefits for Cabrillo Gamelan Friends of Cabrillo Gamelan which wants to buy musica

00:48:52.980 - 00:49:04.860

instruments for their group an continue the study of gamelan a Cabrillo College, a very, ver worthy cause. I'm afraid I don' have any information on th third event. So do you have press release

00:49:04.900 - 00:49:19.030

Morton Marcus: Yes, I can get that for you right here, being as I am always prepared, he said without taking [unidentified]. Judy Slattum: Sorry. Morton Marcus: Okay. No, that's- that's fine. How about The Dance

00:49:19.030 - 00:49:25.840

of Bali, Cabrillo Theater? Gamelan. Sekar Jaya? That's what you just talked about, right? That's what you just talked about? Judy Slattum: Yeah. It's the third one.

00:49:26.260 - 00:49:33.320

Morton Marcus: That is the third one. Judy Slattum: Okay. Morton Marcus: Is that the third one? Judy Slattum: Well, I only have information about our our own

00:49:33.320 - 00:49:40.180

performance and Gamelan Sekar Jaya, so if there's a third, I'm not sure exactly what it is. Well, I have to get [cross talk]. Morton Marcus: Okay, well, that's very easy to do, because

00:49:40.180 - 00:50:01.120

we've got a telephone number for you, which is 479-6331. That's 479-6331 to find out about these performances, and to hear more about gamelan in Santa Cruz County and the retirement of Lou Harrison, which we all in many ways are unhappy about, a great

00:50:01.120 - 00:50:11.710

composer of the 20th century who has lived among us, and who has been so interested in gamelan for years now. Thank you both so much for being here. Judy Slattum: Oh thank you for letting us come!

00:50:11.870 - 00:50:24.170

Morton Marcus: Oh! Okay. Here it is. The third one- Judy Slattum: Oh good. Morton Marcus: -is at Cabrillo College on May 2 at 8pm. That's May 2 at 8pm at Cabrillo College and I guess that is the- the

00:50:24.170 - 00:50:37.040

theater. I want to thank Plaza Books who has provided a grant that helped make this last half hour of programming possible. Plaza Books is located on the Pacific Garden Mall in Santa Cruz and we appreciate their support. Joe will be back with

00:50:37.040 - 00:50:53.990

you next week. May I urge you to attend the second of the great birthdays this week. As you probably know, William Shakespeare was born all those years ago and so was Duke Ellington. And Tim Folger on "Things Ain't What They Used to

00:50:53.990 - 00:51:09.470

Be," the wonderful jazz show that follows The Poetry Show, has got a two hour special on Duke Ellington. So do listen in. We will go off with gamelan. I thank you very much out there, all of you people once more who were so generous during the

00:51:09.470 - 00:51:19.310

pledge week. Thank you again. We hope you're enjoying what we're bringing you. I was absolutely fascinated by tonight's show. Again, thanks to our guests Surya and Judy Slattum. Thank you