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Robert Sward: Airplanes taking off; airplanes not taking off; airplanes landing, I love you. The IRT, BMT; the London subway. (Yes, yes, pedants, the Underground) System; the Moscow subway system, all subway systems except the Chicago

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subway system. Ah, yes, I love you, the Chicago elevated. Sexual intercourse. Hello, hello. Love, I love you; death, I love you; and some other things, as well, I love you. Like what? Walt Whitman, Wagner, Henry Miller; a really

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extraordinary, one-legged Tijuana whore; I love you, loved you. The Reader's Digest (their splendid, Monthly vocabulary tests), Life, and look, handball volleyball, tennis; croquet, basketball, football, Sixty-nine; draft beer for a

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nickel; women who will lend you money, women who will not; women, pregnant women; women who I am making pregnant; women who I am not making pregnant. Women. Trees, gold fish, silverfish, coral fish, coral; I love you, I love you.

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Morton Marcus: And Giorgio? This is George Fuller for people who have just tuned in. George Fuller: Well, I'm going to start my selection of- in "Poet Santa Cruz" which should be out in a couple of days, my

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issue of it, with a poem called: DOES ANYONE SWIM THE ENGLISH CHANNEL ANYMORE, this is for James D. Houston. So, we live, watching the back of the head in front of us

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rising and falling. The fellow was laughing. We matter and we don't. Someone else will watch his head when we're gone. Usually, I think it heroic simply to be alive this long, heroic just to tell you trivial things and smile. "Not waving,

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drowning," the British poet said, "does anyone swim the English channel anymore? Dive headlong, all goggles and swim cap, into the unknown just to be British, just to unlock everything that's shut behind a refusal to swim, even guarded

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across the cold slip? I envy this knowing. Perhaps it is a sin after all to stay here watching the novelist's head bobbing, his chest echoing with laughter, to stay here where I matter, even though I don't, and think about the water on the

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other side of the world. Morton Marcus: Yeah, I meant to ask you about that, George. I know you're talking metaphorically, or figuratively, but did this actually arise out of an actual incident?

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George Fuller: Yeah, interestingly enough, Robert Peterson, another Santa Cruz poet that many people know, had a book signing party for his, "The Only Piano Player in La Paz." You and I were there, a number of other people were

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there, and Jim Houston was there. And when Robert came around at the time of the party where Robert was going to read from the book, Houston was standing in front of me, Peterson was reading. And Houston was laughing at one of

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Peterson's poems and it struck me, you know, in this kind of a way, and all of a sudden, both Houston turned and I turned, and he pulled out a pen and a piece of paper, and he started writing down an idea for a story. I turned and I started writing

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down an idea for a poem, as Peterson continued to read, then both of us when we finished with our notes, put them in our pockets and stood back up and continued to listen to Robert's work, but it was that kind of almost a dual inspiration that I

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got this poem from. Morton Marcus: It's great. I think it's a great existential metaphor of, you know, swimming or drowning. I mean, this idea of just trying to hold on to life and keep ourselves

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together. I think it works very, very well in the poem. I really liked the poem a lot. George Fuller: Well, the quote in the middle is from I guess, I think it's Stevie Smith, the, "not waving, drowning," and that

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in itself is another one of those existential metaphors that perhaps is one of the central images in here, but the whole concept is similar to that, not waving, drowning. Morton Marcus: While we are talking, for those people who

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have just tuned in because I know there are people who are late and dived towards their radios at one o'clock. We are talking with George Fuller, the editor, publisher of Jazz Press, and with Bob Sward, both poets, the editor and publisher of

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"Poet Santa Cruz," and we're having both Bob Sward and George Fuller read their poems since their poems make up the first two issues of "Poet Santa Cruz." We're going to continue right now, but I do want to say several times during this

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program, this is sort of an appetizer because tonight at Sweet Williams on Seabright, both Bob and George will be reading their poetry with Marina Fitch in the Wednesday night readings. So I will be mentioning that several other

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times. Put that on your list, readings begin at 7:30 there. And right now, Robert, we're back to you. Robert Sward: This is a poem called, "Li Po." Morton Marcus: Okay, who was Li Po?

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Robert Sward: He was an incredible Chinese poet who was born proximately 700 AD, lived to a ripe old age of sixty, and some of his work- I first came in contact with his work in a wonderful anthology by Robert Payne called, "The White Pony."

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It was my first introduction to it, and to some extent I owe a debt to "The White Pony" for introducing me to Li Po and, you know, some of the images that I've incorporated into this poem.

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Morton Marcus: Let's stop for one second. Everyone talks about different anthologies of Chinese poetry that have come out in the last ten or fifteen years. Back in the late 1940s, "The White Pony," by Payne came out, it is in paperback still, it is a

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Signal paperback. If you are interested in Chinese poetry, it seems to me it is still by far -- though at times not poetic, and some of the constructions are awkward -- it is still by far the best anthology that is out there. So if you're looking

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for a really good beginning book on Chinese poetry, the entire history of it, try Robert Payne's, "Red Pony." I just want to interject that- Robert Sward: I might say too- [cross talk]

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Morton Marcus: "White Pony." Steinbeck's "The Red Pony. Robert Sward: Was- the readings I heard Robert Bly give when I was a student at University of Iowa Writers Workshop out here, and he was at that time alking about, "The White Pony,"

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Morton Marcus: There is another big anthology called, "Sunflower as an influence on his work I mean, not much is said about- the people think about Spa ish poets, German poets, on Bly, but also, "The White Pony," think in some sense got him

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Splendor," which I just think is absolutely awful. And though it's supposedly has much more accurate translations, the people who are doing the translations just don't know poetry at all. They're translators, not poets, and it

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really shows. Anyway, didn't mean to interrupt your poem. Robert Sward: LI PO Tall, powerfully built with a loud screeching voice and bright, hungry, tigerish eyes, his black hair flowing over his

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shoulders, the high, heavenly priest of the white lake, with murderers and thieves for ancestors. Musician, swordsman and connoisseur of fine wines, a drunk, a murderer -- Mister Fairyland, Mister Landscape of an impossible flowering. He was

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called a god in exile, the great phoenix whose wings obscured the sun. "I am strong enough," boasted this poet, "to meet ten thousand men," an understatement say those who knew him. Li Po, who at death was summoned by angelic hosts, who rode off on

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the backs of dolphins and, led by the two children of immortality, entered the Celestial Palace in triumph. Morton Marcus: Very nice, yeah. It's one of the new poems that you've actually written down here.

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Robert Sward: That's right. Morton Marcus: Yeah. In fact, what's happened to Bob since he's come down here is that there's been a whole Oriental turn to his work. And I guess you started reading the Oriental

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poets again, or did it- just the atmospheres of the mountains doing it to you? Robert Sward: I think it's the atmosphere of the mountains, I think it's, you know, I have been reading of course Oriental

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poets like Li Po since since the Fifties as an undergraduate. And in fact, when I first began writing poetry actually, when I was about eighteen, nineteen, actually, you know, getting stuff published and so forth, when I was stationed in San

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Diego in the navy, and I'm a ship's librarian on LSD-914 on my way to Korea around the world. And I have the debt to the Navy for teaching me how to type and for, you know, sponsoring me when I go home on leave and write my poems. And my

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interest in Oriental poetry, I guess goes back to the time that I was in the Navy, going to Japan, going to the Orient. Morton Marcus: Did you find that the Navy actually had a good library on that ship?

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Robert Sward: Well, some of the books, of course, were left over. These are the first paperbacks which were published during the time of World War II. I mean, they weren't even published. People didn't have the concept of paperback, they

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wanted light portable books that people could put into their combat boots or take out into the field or wherever the hell they worked. And so we'd did with these, they were just dumped into cardboard boxes. So when I went in in the Fifties,

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during during the Korean War, there was like these leftover boxes, but I mean, the content, the books themselves, were wonders. And then when I came out of the navy, in around '53, '54, the paperback revolution was just beginning to crank up

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and of course, it owe the debt in some sense the Armed Forces which had sponsored some of the first paperback books. Morton Marcus: Well, it's interesting. The reason I asked that question was I was in during Korea also. And I found

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that all the base libraries I went to had astonishing books. I mean, I first read David Ignatow's poetry in the Air Force, and I read, "The Gentle Weightlifter," to pieces. And of course, they had all of Karl Shapiro's stuff and everything.

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I mean, they were contemporary with contemporary poets as most libraries weren't. So it was a delight to me, and it was in the Air Force that I decided that I wasn't going to mess around with poetry anymore, but I was going to give my life to it in mental

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ruin. [Chuckles] Anyway, George, let's have another poem from you. You want to just read them in order? Do whatever you want. George Fuller: I'm going to skip at the beginning of this next issue of "Poet Santa Cruz." I indicate that I have a book

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forthcoming entitled, "The Bay of Familiarity," with Futzie Nutzle and might say I met Futzie Nutzle, the cartoonist, through Morton Marcus, whose book, "The Armies and Camp of the Fields Beyond the Unfinished Avenues," was the first real

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Jazz Press book back in 1976. So, Morton I owe many debts to both for getting me together with Nutzle and getting me into professional publishing, I'll never forgive him. This poem is entitled, "Horse," and it goes along with a Nutzle drawing. I'm

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going to try to describe the drawing, but of course, it's difficult to describe a Nutzle drawing. This is a horse standing on a rock with the crescent moon up above it and to its right. It's a headless horse and that's the drawing. It's a

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very powerful statement and the poem- The way that this book came about "The Bay of Familiarity," is I had a bunch of poems that he loved and started to do drawings to the poems. I had a lot of his drawings that I started to write

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poems to accompany, and this is one that was his drawing first and my poem second, so: HORSE. This is the horse speaking. The work I do is all wrong. I wasn't meant to be a horse,

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pulling, always pulling. Maybe a fish or a sparrow is what I should have been, like this little one on my back, flying off whenever, returning as she pleases. Sometimes, loaded from the quarry, my wagon unbearable with stone, I'm ready to die.

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Drop in my harness from the lathering heat, foaming at bit, girth, and blinders. No, I wasn't meant to be slave like this, pulling. Sometimes, it's only a song, first heard circling above my head, but then from the sway in my back sung by

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my weightless friend that keeps me from dropping to my knees. Morton Marcus: Now, George, again, I've read Bob Sward's poems and I read his poems in "Poet Santa Cruz." I've not had a chance to talk to you about these poems, so that's why

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George is getting the questions here. The sparrow is not in the drawing. George Fuller: No, it is not. Morton Marcus: Yeah, that is a great touch. I love this poem.

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Again, this all these existential metaphors. It's wonderful how, and listeners can go to "Poet Santa Cruz," George Fuller number two here, and see how he has put that sparrow in there. And it just seems to be in the poem, but it is strategy,

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it's coming back. And it's just wonderfully done, it is done so offhandedly, with such a lack of extra dramatic melodrama, you know. And it's a beautiful poem because it's a poem about our spiritual nature and our physical nature, and how that

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spiritual nature keeps us going, or poetic nature, the small songs of the sparrow in which way- and you're denigrating yourself as poet, you see, you're not giving yourself unacknowledged legislator of mankind. It's a wonderful poem,

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George. I really, really like it. George Fuller: Thank you. It's similar to me to what jazz does for me, and this is the reason that I call this Jazz Press is because it's the songs, it's the emotional, philosophical beauty,

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the roses, the birds, that really keep me from dropping to my knees under the weight of this world. Morton Marcus: Well, it comes across and it really is wonderful, and so it's really interesting that here a drawing

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inspires you, but you go beyond the drawing, which to me is the way this kind of thing should meet on the page, you know, that the poem is still independent and the drawing is still independent. Very nice touch, really, really like it. Let us

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do two short poems. You guys have two short poems and then we will take our customary thirty minute break. Bob, how about you? George Fuller: Thirty second break?

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Morton Marcus: No, our thirty minute break. Now that is we break on the thirty minutes [laughs]. George Fuller: I thought we're going to break for the next half hour, play some music.

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Robert Sward: I was living on the Santa Cruz Mountains. I recently moved right into Santa Cruz. I wrote this poem called: MONK ON THE SANTA CRUZ MOUNTAINS They say there's a monk on the Santa Cruz Mountains, his white

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robes floating three hundred feet beneath the sky. A barefoot, thousand-year-old, chocolate-colored genie who has not spoken in three lifetimes. His matted ankle-length hair housed a family of scorpions. Now, small children approach him

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dance and whirl about with his walking stick, which once separated two demons in a death struggle. Morton Marcus: Okay, was this an actual story or is this some- it says here after Ts'en Ts'an, so this is actually after a Chinese

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poem or-? Robert Sward: It's after a Chinese poem, and it's adapted to my experiences with the, you know, sharing the mountain, having a yoga teacher named Baba Hari Dass.

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Morton Marcus: Yeah, that's who I related it to. Right, yeah. Okay, George, what do you think? You got around something less than a hundred and fifty lines for us? George Fuller: Short poems I don't do much.

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Morton Marcus: In the end of your selection is a short poem. Were you saving that for the- George Fuller: I'll read that one. It's a good one. It's called, "Preparing for Paradise," which is the title of

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my new collection of poems that will be out, not "Poet Santa Cruz," but it's another collection entitled: PREPARING FOR PARADISE, some time next- this coming spring. A scarecrow with memory of heartache and a desire to dance

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brought me into this world, taught me to be the rain in a beggar's tea cup, the pool at the bottom of the heart. But just as soon, taught me to be prepared to leave, board this life raft of smoke, and with scarecrow, shove off into the

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river of fog, or another voice says: Turn the page where your name was written, breathe in, hold. Morton Marcus: As we said, you are listening to Coleman Hawkins and he is-

00:22:38.440 - 00:22:49.290

You're not listening to Coleman Hawkins, you knew that though. George Fuller: That's Charlie Parker. Morton Marcus: Yes, says one of our guests, that is Charlie Parker, of course. And the bird brings us into the second half

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of the show which is not Leon Allen's "Jazz Kitchen' though that will be here within twenty-five minutes. We are talking to the editor-publisher of Jazz Press, George Fuller, who is also a poet, article writer, and big game hunter.

00:23:02.430 - 00:23:18.060

[Laughter] And we are also talking to Robert Sward who has bagged a number of large [unintelligible] labels in his life also, whatever that means, I leave the listener to wonder at. And of course Bob is a very well-known poet and he has now

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joined George Fuller to bring out these wonderful little pamphlets called "Poet Santa Cruz." The second one he is featured in- the first one, and the second one will feature George Fuller, and they've already projected three more

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numbers through next winter. So we will return to talking to these poets in one minute but I do want to announce the announcements that I do have which, believe it or not, are just one. And that is, the reading tonight at Sweet

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Williams, Indian summer cafe, which starts at 7:30 and which is at 538 Seabright Avenue will feature -- I got strange names here -- George Fuller, Robert Sward, and Marina Fitch. Now too bad Marina isn't here. I would have loved to have had her on

00:24:05.340 - 00:24:19.530

the show. But since we're focusing on "Poet Santa Cruz," if you are interested in what you heard today, do two things: one, go out, and hear a much fuller reading by both poets; and two, really support what I think right now is the only

00:24:19.530 - 00:24:35.280

steady reading in the county of Santa Cruz, started by T. Mike Walker and continued by Steve Wiesinger and Amber Coverdale Sumrall, who has been on the show. So, do support your local poets and support the poets here today, and just go up to them,

00:24:35.340 - 00:24:51.330

I'd be interested, and say, "I heard you on the Poetry Show at KUSP this afternoon." And that would let us know that there are more than just my mother listening in on her crystal set from New York. Okay, Bob, where are we going? We're going back

00:24:51.330 - 00:25:04.320

to Bob. Why don't you read us a poem, and again, these are poems that we may be offered soon, from the hit- the first pamphlet of "Poet Santa Cruz." Robert Sward: This is a sonnet for Castroville, California, a

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coffee shop cum art gallery in the artichoke capital of the world. O thistle-like artichoke in the place of glory. Green peppers: four lushly-framed nudes staring down on us with a kind of greasy

00:25:20.300 - 00:25:39.530

grace. Purple and green eggplants like immodest prudes. And apples of heroic size left to right, like paintings of smugly pompous ancestors. Broccoli plus pale mushrooms in the moonlight, whitely, bulbous, omniscient lecturers

00:25:39.780 - 00:25:56.790

On the care and curatorship of fruits and vegetables which play more a part in our lives than the sad-eyed ruling dupes who clutter up our walls displacing fruits. I never did before but now I will: I sing, dear friends, of

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brave plain Castroville. Morton Marcus: One of the interesting things, and I really believe this when I say it, is that when you get artists coming into an area and starting to do their work on the area, on

00:26:10.100 - 00:26:26.480

places like Castroville, the area is defined, the area becomes real, and almost in its own way, immortal. And I just would like to say that here comes Bob Sward after his travels for the last decade, he's been living up in Canada,

00:26:26.840 - 00:26:38.330

and now he comes down to Santa Cruz and he starts to define the mountains for us, he starts starts to find the area for us. So we have poems in here called, "A Monk on the Santa Cruz Mountains," "Castroville, California." And even if the

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tone is tongue in cheek, that certainly is affectionate I think, also. We've got something important going on here. And I think, you know, George recognized this years ago, when I first met him when he was a student at UCSC. You don't mind

00:26:50.480 - 00:26:58.210

me bringing that up, do you, George? George Fuller: Not at all, not at all. Morton Marcus: And said, man, I want to get into publishing. I love poetry and there's something about Santa Cruz that

00:26:58.210 - 00:27:10.450

I really want to publish. He left Santa Cruz, went down LA, and came back. And more and more. he's doing poetry that is of this area, though Jazz Press is certainly much, much larger than that. In fact, before you read your poem, why don't you

00:27:10.450 - 00:27:20.500

tell us the books that Jazz Press has out. These are not the pamphlets, "Poet Santa Cruz," but the books that Jazz Press has out and by the different poets involved, if you can remember them all.

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George Fuller: Well, we've got about twenty books out now, so I'm not going to mention all of them, but did the Collected Poems of George Hitchcock along with his collected stories and what is almost his collected plays, so we brought out pretty

00:27:36.680 - 00:27:50.090

much the entire library of George Hitchcock material, who of course is professor, lecturer up at UCSC, part time. Morton Marcus: And legendary editor of the Sixties as wel as Kayak Magaz

00:27:49.650 - 00:28:03.090

George Fuller: Kayak Magazine nd Kayak Books. Two of your own books, Mort, "The Big Win s, Glass Mornings," the recent b ok, it's still available in the tores and everyone should go out and buy a copy up to get to kn w Mort.

00:28:04.640 - 00:28:15.440

Morton Marcus: I'm sitting here very humbly, folks, but follow the man's directions [laughs]. George Fuller: But I'll tell you what I mean, the poetry- this is what poetry means to me: I'm sitting in Rosarito Beach Hotel

00:28:15.470 - 00:28:32.420

in Baja California with a manuscript of Mort Marcus' called, "Big Winds, Glass Mornings, Shadows Cast By Stars," and I'm reading this with my Mai Tai and overlooking the ocean and reading the most beautiful lyrical poems that

00:28:32.420 - 00:28:43.820

brought tears to my eyes. And as soon as I crossed the border, I called Mort on the phone, wasn't collect, I said, "Mort, I love these poems. You're wonderful. Let's do this book." And he said yes, but-

00:28:44.210 - 00:28:58.470

Morton Marcus: He was still suffering from the Mai Tais. George Fuller: It's a very emotional experience. I mean, I love those poems. But we also, outside of the Santa Cruz area, the last two books, Jerome Mazzaro's, "The Caves of Love,"

00:28:58.500 - 00:29:06.090

who's a New York writer, poet- Morton Marcus: Have you put that in the bookstores around Santa Cruz? George Fuller: Bookstores around Santa Cruz are a little hesitant

00:29:06.090 - 00:29:20.130

to take poets that are not known in this area, and it's difficult to get them in. So, no, they're not available locally. They're available, you know, in a lot of other stores in Berkeley and San Francisco and New York and what-not.

00:29:20.160 - 00:29:30.810

Morton Marcus: Well, I'll speak to some people about that. But Jerome Mazzaro, for people who don't know, is one of the most important critics in America today. He's done work on Robert Lowell and James Wright and is really editing their posthumous

00:29:30.810 - 00:29:43.650

letters, posthumous poems, and things like that. And there are a half dozen, a dozen poems in that book, the long poems just knocked me out. I just thought they were just wonderful. George Fuller: Marjorie Simon's recent book-

00:29:43.600 - 00:29:59.740

Morton Marcus: Who was here and who we talked to, and I got some phone calls on the show and people really enjoyed it. George Fuller: Marjorie's poems are touching and hilarious and about survival and just- "The Long Distance Oatmeal-Eater," is

00:29:59.740 - 00:30:08.370

the name of that book. Did a book of artwork of Futzie Nutzle's drawings. Morton Marcus: Is that available again? George Fuller: There are some copies available in bookstores,

00:30:08.370 - 00:30:18.870

yeah. I have a new book of Judith Minty's about to be released next week. Morton Marcus: And some of you people may remember that name, she gave readings around here when she lived here and also

00:30:18.870 - 00:30:28.950

worked at UCSC for one year, was very, very influential on students, a lot of other people, wonderful poet. How about two books in one by? George Fuller: Two books in one by?

00:30:29.110 - 00:30:33.520

Morton Marcus: Bert Meyers. George Fuller: Bert Meyers. Morton Marcus: Actually, the posthumous poems of Bert Meyers are out in Jazz.

00:30:33.520 - 00:30:43.420

George Fuller: That's right. Morton Marcus: And it was those two books I was reading from mainly when I did my first "Lost Voices" poems. George Fuller: Yeah, yeah, that- that book just got snapped up

00:30:43.420 - 00:30:56.460

very quickly. Unfortunately, there's very few copies. Bookshop Santa Cruz has one or two, I think so. Morton Marcus: Oh, is it gone? George Fuller: The edition is gone. It's gone, what can I say?

00:30:57.990 - 00:31:02.820

Morton Marcus: Okay, who else, there are other- George Fuller: The Jack Marshalls? Morton Marcus: Jack Marshalls, and what did Jack Marshall's book do?

00:31:03.260 - 00:31:13.290

George Fuller: Jack Marshall won the Bay Area Book Review Association. Morton Marcus: It's a great little [cross talk] award where George Fuller: A lot of different kinds of books, and a

00:31:09.020 - 00:31:19.630

they have strawhats. lot that are from Santa Cruz, as Mort said, and a lot that are not. Morton Marcus: Just before we go into the poetry, I think it's

00:31:19.630 - 00:31:33.810

your turn to read actually, what's on the board? What's your next two or three books? Do you have anything? George Fuller: Robert Peters, the- help me, Ludwig. Morton Marcus: The wonderfully dramatic flamboyant poet, a

00:31:34.200 - 00:31:47.550

literary critic who has dashed so many people's hopes [laughs] for mortality, and he was here as "Mad Ludwig" in a memorable night when the theater was packed, people screaming to get in to see him perform in drag.

00:31:47.870 - 00:32:00.530

George Fuller: This is true, and he takes this on tour, does it around the country and we're going to publish the playscript of "Mad Ludwig," and the poem, the poems that he's written. Morton Marcus: Right, the original, wonderful.

00:32:00.560 - 00:32:12.830

George Fuller: So that's- that's on the board, the Judith Minty, and that's about it at this point. I'm trying to pull back from doing too much in that realm right now. Morton Marcus: Well, we'll hear what you're doing later on. But

00:32:12.830 - 00:32:34.860

why don't you read some more poems now? George Fuller: I'll read a poem entitled, "Wall Water," I believe. This poem won first prize at the Santa Cruz County Fair. It's for- "Wall Water" s for my fathe

00:32:37.200 - 00:32:53.370

Morton Marcus: Can I stop there, can I interrupt you for a second? Now, you've just heard George Fuller say this poem won first prize in the county fair. I want everyone out there to realize that the county fair has upped its money and its concern

00:32:53.370 - 00:32:59.910

for quality in the poetry contest that a lot of people don't even know is happening. How much money did you win, George? George Fuller: Hundred bucks.

00:32:59.930 - 00:33:15.320

Morton Marcus: Hundred bucks and we're thinking of raising it from that point. You can hear the kind of poem that now wins your county fair and that should win your county fair because we have got so many darn good poets in this county that you should

00:33:15.350 - 00:33:24.140

be proud of what you see pasted up and read. Did you give a reading by any chance? George Fuller: No, no. Morton Marcus: We may be including that, but that's far

00:33:24.140 - 00:33:36.200

fetched. But anyway, be awake out there for the fact that there is a poetry contest in the county fair and it means bucks. George Fuller: Hundred dollars is nothing to laugh at for a poem. This is entitled:

00:33:36.210 - 00:34:00.590

WALL WATER FOR MY FATHER, AUGUST 22, 1898 to August 3, 1982, this poem is about when he was in he hospit I had no idea what you wrote. starved writing, which from your hospital bed shook my life, holding your large hand as you

00:34:00.590 - 00:34:23.960

tried to die, gesturing for me to cut the life lines. Guessing wrote back, "Wall? Water?" To hich you blinked your clear yes but could not speak. Those yes, clearer now than a few ays ago when you told me I was uiet as a church mouse, the

00:34:23.960 - 00:34:45.650

ast words you would ever speak, nd I, scampering before your low failing to live forever. ow could I cut the lines when mmortality still hung with you? aybe I am a church mouse. In he face of your empty rooms, our vacant leather chairs, a

00:34:45.650 - 00:35:02.490

hurch mouse in the white orridors of St. John's, where I as born, and you die, rising bove your body toward the full oon. Morton Marcus: Very nice. I'm sure your poem still moves you

00:35:02.490 - 00:35:15.480

quite a bit. One of the interesting things to me about this poem is that though it is so vivid and vividly written you just, and the thing that shows me, you know, how really close this is and how this poem needed to be written, is the absence of

00:35:15.960 - 00:35:33.930

surrealistic images and verbal pyrotechnics, you know. A very moving poem, very moving poem. Bob, what about you? What have you been doing these days? I'm trying to keep this going like a real show host here, trying to fool the staff. You're going to

00:35:33.930 - 00:35:41.770

have a new book of poems out, your Selected Poems are out in Canada? Robert Sward: That's right. It's called, "Half of Life's History: Poems New and Selected," that was published in Toronto by

00:35:41.950 - 00:35:55.270

something called Aya Press, there's a few copies available in Santa Cruz, but I'm in the process now of finishing up a new and larger collection which will be called, "Golden Oldies and New Releases." It is still a work in progress, but it's just

00:35:55.270 - 00:36:04.680

about finished and I'm, you know- it includes the work that I wrote from- going back in time when I was in the Navy. Morton Marcus: Well, will it be a larger volume than the Robert Sward: So it'll be probably twice the size of the

00:36:03.100 - 00:36:16.170

Selected Poems? other book, approximately a hundred forty, forty-eight page manuscript. And I might read a poem or two from that. I mean, it's got a wide variety of forms. And they'll be- becaus

00:36:16.170 - 00:36:29.760

I'm teaching for the SPECTR Program, I'm a visiting poet in a number of schools., I've b en writing poems for and with k ds and I'll just read this- read one sample. This was probably the most recent poem I've writ

00:36:30.690 - 00:36:35.490

Morton Marcus: But while we're talking, why don't you read it right now? Robert Sward: It's called: CLANCY THE DOG

00:36:37.670 - 00:36:57.230

He is so ugly. He is a psalm to ugliness. This extra-terrestrial, short-haired, midget sea-lion, snorts, farts, grunts, turns somersaults on his mistress' bed. She calls him an imperfect Boston terrier, part gnome, part elf, half something

00:36:57.230 - 00:37:13.190

and half something else. One hundred and eighty million year old Clancy with his yellowy-white pinpointed teeth and red mis-shapen prehistoric gums. Clancy has no tail at all and doesn't bark. He squeaks like a monkey, flies through the

00:37:13.190 - 00:37:32.570

air, lands at six every morning on his mistress' head, begging to be fed and wrapped not in a robe, but a spread. Tree frog, wart hog, groundhog, Clancy, Clancy, she calls for him in the California fog and he appears anything, anything, part

00:37:32.570 - 00:37:46.920

anything, but a dog. Morton Marcus: That's great. It certainly is a match for another famous dog poem which Bob wrote and which people out there may not know but his famous poem called, Bob?

00:37:47.250 - 00:37:57.030

Robert Sward: "Uncle Dog: The Poet at Nine." Morton Marcus: Yeah. Well, one of my favorites and as people who have been listening to the show know, I asked him to read it the minute he came on the show because it is something

00:37:57.030 - 00:38:13.920

that way, way, way before I ever met him -- I won't say how many years but the revolution had not been fought -- was a real influence on me, as Bob's zany humor is. Okay, well, you are doing the SPECTRA Program, which is supplied by the school system

00:38:13.920 - 00:38:25.380

here in Santa Cruz and also by the Cultural Council. And you're actually going to be working- well, what schools are you working in? Robert Sward: Well, right now I'm at a junior high in Scotts

00:38:25.380 - 00:38:37.000

Valley. I'll be going to Aptos. There's a school in Watsonville I'll be going to. Morton Marcus: How long do you do each one? Do you come in for individual classes, or do you, let's say, do a block of days,

00:38:37.000 - 00:38:48.070

or so many hours per day, and for how long? Robert Sward: It varies. It depends on the needs and wishes of the school itself. But like in Scotts Valley, for example, I'll be there for ten consecutive days. I'm there in

00:38:48.070 - 00:39:01.540

the mornings, I visit three classes, grade seven and eight, getting the students to write poetry, some of them for the first time in their lives. And then we're also working toward the publication of a little- little booklet that can be done

00:39:01.540 - 00:39:09.880

in school inexpensively. And the kids get their sense of first publication and begin to understand something about editing and the publishing process. Morton Marcus: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, the whole program

00:39:09.880 - 00:39:26.770

is wonderful. I think Pat Vecchione is still ahead of it for us. So yeah, she'll be- I hope she'll be on the show in the next month or two, and I gave a call the last show I did for people to send in their requests to the program. Okay,

00:39:26.770 - 00:39:40.960

George, you are actually a disc jockey and that's why you have jumped in here with some comments oohing and ahhing over the jazz when it first started. And you have the blues show on KAZU, when is that in case people are interested not only

00:39:40.960 - 00:39:56.990

hearing your poetry but to hear your smooth disc jockey delivery? George Fuller: Oh, well, I have 9:30 to noon on Friday mornings. I play the blues, I play jazz on KAZU, the sister station to KUSP

00:39:57.020 - 00:40:16.970

down in Pacific Grove. And I have a lot of fun doing that, it provides, as you probably know, a whole different realm of response and, you know, feedback then does reading poetry or publishing poetry on the written page. We very, very rarely get a

00:40:16.970 - 00:40:29.630

phone call and somebody says, God, I love that poem. You know, when you're on the radio, you put together a show and people are very verbal about it, so that it provides something different for me and allows me an opportunity to play music

00:40:29.630 - 00:40:39.330

that I love. Morton Marcus: It's great. I also know you work in a print shop in Monterey, and you are the West Coast vice president of the National Writers Union now.

00:40:39.770 - 00:40:55.460

George Fuller: That's true. The Writers Union doesn't do a whole lot for poets, but at this point, there's a case that is coming up on Margo Randall that we're throwing our support behind. Margo Randall is a poet who's living in New Mexico that

00:40:55.460 - 00:41:17.420

many people may know from her essays, criticism, and poetry dealing with Cuba and Nicaragua on feminist issues. She's been threatened with deportation by the Justice Department for what amounts in their minds to un-American activities. She

00:41:17.660 - 00:41:34.730

lived in Nicaragua, lived in Cuba, but the works that she's written are basically the voices of the Nicaraguan women, the Cuban women, Vietnamese women in revolution. She's been effectively deported for what she had to say on the basis of

00:41:34.730 - 00:41:44.210

her published writings. Morton Marcus: Well, yeah, so I know Margaret, she's an old friend and the case is more complex than that. When she was in Mexico, in order to work down there, she -- and she was also

00:41:44.210 - 00:41:59.540

married at that time to a Mexican national -- she renounced her citizenship. And that's what they're trying to get her on, she is no longer an American citizen. There was a great show on Nightline on ABC TV on this problem. It really

00:41:59.540 - 00:42:13.640

is, you know, you're really denying a person, who is natural American, citizenship n the basis of that person s political views. But anywa , that's great. It's good to kn w that the National Writers Uni n is doing that. Penn's doing

00:42:13.640 - 00:42:26.510

it, a lot of other places are oing it, that's great. Also just to mention it, and we're eginning the old clock on the wall has just really made his hour awfully short. I do kn w you're also writing art cles for Monterey Life, you d

00:42:26.510 - 00:42:37.080

d one on Jim Houston and then yo 're also editing for Ocean Sport , ar George Fuller: Editing for Ocean Sports International magazine. It's basically surfing, windsurfing, diving sorts of

00:42:37.080 - 00:42:57.300

things and trying to pull into the magazine articles by writers who are literary in nature. Jim Hall is going to do a piece on Jack London and London's contribution to surfing, and trying to get Jim Houston to write something for us and

00:42:57.630 - 00:43:10.890

really, really trying to up the literary quality of the magazine as well as- what it is now is a lot of beautiful photographs, very interesting adventure type stuffs. Yeah, that's fun to do also.

00:43:11.100 - 00:43:24.870

Morton Marcus: Yeah. Well, I've been going over the last ten minutes the varied bios of both of these men who are sitting here before me. Bob has taught all different grades, all different ages from college on down to primary school, so let

00:43:24.870 - 00:43:37.080

us with all this new information that the listener has in mind, and time beginning to fade, and I'm sure Leon going to be coming in here very soon.- Bob, why don't you give us another poem and then George, you can still talk. Am I short-changing him?

00:43:38.520 - 00:43:44.730

George Fuller: Doesn't make any difference. You got a poem, Bob, or should I? Go ahead. Morton Marcus: And then you can get the last one. George Fuller: Great.

00:43:45.440 - 00:43:57.800

Robert Sward: This is- I mentioned I was doing work for the SPECTRA, going into the schools, and one of the poems that came out of that experience is a poem I wrote for my daughter, Hannah. She's now fifteen, this is a poem looking

00:43:57.800 - 00:44:07.120

back to the time when she was just beginning to walk. The poem is called: LEARNING TO WALK Her seven teeth are seven different sizes. As I hold her

00:44:07.120 - 00:44:23.020

around the middle, stand her on the sidewalk, she puts out her tongue, fires off a raspberry. She kicks at me and socks me in the nose. Long fingers of one hand, pointing, she takes three giant steps like a frisky drunk lurching home after an all-night

00:44:23.020 - 00:44:41.320

party. I throw her onto my back. She hums to herself, drools on my neck, kicks my ribs, thunk, thunk in rhythm with her punches to my head. Slobber's her good morning, sucks a lollipop, likes the color red, tosses it away, sings to me instead.

00:44:43.660 - 00:45:00.810

Morton Marcus: Very nice, beautiful. Great way to end the show for your side of the reading. George? George Fuller: I'm going to read- can't decide. I'll read this one. It's more recent. It's called:

00:45:00.810 - 00:45:19.160

MEN WHO DON'T SING, MEN WHO DON'T DANCE, I'll talk about it afterwards if you want to, but the punchline at the end I don't want to give it away. Women sing, women dance. Fair weather ballerinas, foul whether

00:45:19.160 - 00:45:43.220

cantinas, but what happened to men? Tin-tongued and soldier-footed, elephants of the floorboards under the weight of monopolies under orders or under guard. What happened to the wand that frees us into song? Yeah, there's Caruso, Astaire, Kelly,

00:45:43.670 - 00:46:01.850

but I'm talking about the rest of us, bellowing in the showers of the world like we've been hit with a bad meal. Foot-stompers dreaming of a long glide on a shiny floor. Those of us whose best dance is a three-step toward bowling pins. Where's the

00:46:01.850 - 00:46:23.570

romance in that? Maybe it's just me with too many tomatoes under my belt, but when I ordered the secret cake to the birthday table for Joan and the waitress warned with shaking finger, "You'd better sing!" I suspect she's talking to us all, boys.

00:46:27.200 - 00:46:41.810

Morton Marcus: Okay, we have been talking with George Fuller, Robert Sward, who are in on this new wonderful venture called "Poet Santa Cruz." And they will be reading tonight with Marina Fitch at 538 Seabright Avenue, 7:30pm, and that is Sweet

00:46:41.810 - 00:47:03.020

Williams Indian Summer Cafe. I would also like to announce that there will be an opening of paintings of drawings and watercolors by Diana Mall at Dancing Man Gallery beginning on the 31st of January. And next week, Joseph Stroud, I believe

00:47:03.020 - 00:47:18.020

you know that name, will be doing a two-part show on Ralph Jacobson, the wonderful Swedish poet and on Han Shan, the Tang Dynasty Chinese poet. Stay tuned for Leon and the "Jazz Kitchen," though we are going to go out with jazz which is going to

00:47:18.020 - 00:47:32.570

shock Leon here. And I just want to say once more, thanks to Plaza Books on Pacific Avenue for the generous donation that made the Poetry Show possible. See you in two weeks. This is Mort Marcus, signing out.