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Morton Marcus: Good evening everybody, this is Morton Marcus and this is The Poetry Show. And tonight we have what has become our annual visit from Gary Young, the wonderful printer, artist, and not least poet, who tonight is going to read us

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actually a lot of new work, because this has been a very decant year for him. Gary has become a father, and he has written a book and a half of poetry, or just about that, it's a little exaggeration. Anyway, welcome to The Poetry Show,

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Gary. Gary Young: Thanks, Mort, it's good to be here. Morton Marcus: Well, it's good to have you. Tell us a little about the work that you've been doing in the last year. First of

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all, tell us about the baby and I will cut you off if it goes too long. Gary Young: Just an hour show? We're doing? Morton Marcus: Yes.

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Gary Young: Yes, four- four months old today. And it's really a curious thing, the children tend to take away what little free time you may have had before, but at the same time I've discovered that I've written half of a new book since

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he's been born, so I can't complain too much about having him around. Morton Marcus: Great, what's the new book like, the new book that you've just written, not the one that I've been working on for

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nine years. Gary Young: The new book is called "Days," and it's a series of short prose pieces. In the book, "The Dream of A Moral Life," which I'll read some out of later, I was dealing with the

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day-to-day, but still in a- in a more of a transcendental approach, I suppose. What I wanted to do in the "Days" book was to write literally about days, things were happening, and which is why I ended up writing in prose. I wanted to release

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myself from what can be an artifice by the linebreak, I mean prosody in free verse allows us to manipulate our language. And it's very simple to take something that is not particularly poetic, and make it more poetic, juice up the- the

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language, electrify it a bit with linebreaks, and that's what I wanted not to do. I wanted to make sure that I was writing about things that were important to me without inflating them in any kind of artificial way.

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Morton Marcus: Would you say that the domesticity you've been forced to live under, let's say, for the- for the last four months or so? And then before that- Gary Young: Don't say "forced," Mort. my wife might be listening

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to this program. [Cross talk] Morton Marcus: Okay, and the- the domesticity you also gladly undertook while in the last months of her pregnancy, when it was obviously hard for her to get around, you think that's had

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sort of an inspirational effect on these poems? Gary Young: Clearly, yeah. Yeah and in fact, that that's mostly what the poems are about. Morton Marcus: Great. Well, I know that we want to read from

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that and you want to read from the other. Did you want to start with some of these, I'll let you go any way you want. You can go with the older poems, if you want. Gary Young: Well, as long as we're talking about them, why

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don't I go ahead and read some of these new ones. Morton Marcus: Great. Well, where did you get those notebooks, Gary? Gary Young: You know Mort, I had to special-order these. They

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used to have them over at Palace [of Art and Office Supplies] for years and years. And I went in to get one, you start a new book, and I thought, "Great, I'll get a new notebook." No way, I had to order it special.

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Morton Marcus: Do you have to go all the way to the East Coast? Gary Young: Yeah. Morton Marcus: We'll talk about this af Gary Young: We‘re living up in Bonnie Doon, as we do the owls

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Morton Marcus: Well, what- can I ask you what you mean by emotive have become fairly totemistic f r me, I have two owls that l ve right over my house and t ey call each other every n ght. So this first poem in t is new manuscript deals with t

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e owls. And all these pieces esides being in prose are untitled. And talking about prosody a minute ago, what I wanted to do in these and what I'm hoping to still do, I'm only about halfway through the manuscript now, was instead of

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using a unit of breath or a syllabic line length, what I wanted to write in was an emotive unit, and I figured that in prose, that was the only way I was going to be able to get that without artificially either truncating or- or somehow

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elaborating beyond what the immediate impulse was unit? Gary Young: Well, instead of thinking of- of poems in terms of a line, where you can either enjamb or or end-stop and

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manipulate the reader through the poem, you know, speed him up, slow him down. I wanted to simply use grammar and the rhythms in the prose to do that, and not inflate what I was writing about. Instead of using a unit of breath, which is what

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I have pretty much always written by, I wanted to use what in my mind is an emotive unit. Like this is- this is the thing itself that I'm writing about without elaboration and try- and that's why most of these are very short. This first one is

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the longest in the book, and it is not very long. Morton Marcus: Was this the first one written, too? Are these chronological? Gary Young: Yes, they are mostly chronological.

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Morton Marcus: Okay. Well, okay, let‘s hear it. Gary Young: I don't know where the owls go when they leave this place, or if they never leave, but simply leave off calling sometimes and they're hollow voices. But tonight, they're

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here. One in a redwood beyond the creek, one high in the fir tree above the house. Their song is a tunnel we are wrapped in and pass through. It defines the night and surrounds us. Repelled through their voices, those three long vowels the darkness

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speaks in, I forget my own worthlessness, which has troubled and chastened me all day. Morton Marcus: Very different tone, very different tone from your other stuff.

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Gary Young: This next poem was about a friend of mine who suffered from, and about a month ago died of AIDS, and because this book is chronological, this- or mostly chronological, this poem that I read first, I wrote when he was first stricken

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with the disease. He- he had a lot of the typical opportunistic diseases, one of which unfortunately developed into a tumor which paralyzed him on one half of his body. I'm going to, before I start reading, I'll pick out two other poems that

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ended up making sort of a trilogy of his situation. So these are three poems about a friend of mine, named Michael Waterland. My friend is dying piece by piece. His right side is gone

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now, paralyzed, useless. In the time remaining, he is learning to speak again and his good left side rages against his right. He follows each rendered thought to cleavage, and dead end, and then backtracks and starts again. He hopes to remember, he stammers,

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how to draw a sentence. We sat in a silence interrupted by gesture, there was nothing I could say. I rubbed his legs, and pulled the curled fingers of his hand. He tried to speak and I think he said, ‘‘I'll be seeing you.‘‘ And I wondered, if

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that's so, how will I recognize him then. And finally, after he left us this poem. The service was brief, hot and vulnerable in the sun we were careful not to touch. We were given flowers, and we laid them

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down. We seemed so large standing by the shrubs and the acres of green, a crow flew overhead while three blackbirds and a lone mocker chased and pecked it again and again. Here's a poem about pregnancy. But one thing about having a

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baby when you're a man is that you can take all the credit in the world for it, and still you're basically an outsider, you're-you're an observer. And I finally realized that- that was one thing that I did have that my wife didn't have was that

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capacity to be an observer, which is what this poem is about. I have such envy for my wife as her belly grows, and the baby wakes, dreams and wakes again in its own new life. I wonder if

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she envies me. Unable as she is to be outside of it, to watch as I watch my own becoming in another. That's the one thing, try if they can, they can't get out of it.

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Morton Marcus: Have you been watching or hearing about these six tapes ofJoseph Campbell's, interviews by Moyer, Bill Moyer? Gary Young: I've heard of them up in the Boondocks, we- we don't get them.

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Morton Marcus: They're- they're really amazing. One thing he talks about is marriage and the importance of marriage, and that marriage is a commitment, not to each other, but to the marriage, and what you are doing is you are creating another entity in

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the marriage, but it's not just a child. And he says the mistakes that many people make is that they think they're just there for the child, it's not. What they're actually doing is recreating a God in the other, and the rest of their self in

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the other, it's an amazing concept. And he thinks that many marriages fail in this country because people have forgotten the real purpose of marriage, they think it's just to raise kids. But that- that last one, that becoming, the self-becoming

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again sort of ticked that off in my mind, it's something that he talks about again, and again. They are incredible. You people out there, they are incredible tapes, and they're being shown on Channel 9, Channel 32, and everything, I think they may be

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the most important thing that's in the media, maybe in the last 50 or 100 years. I mean, it really teaches you how to live in chaos, and with the death and the murder all around you, and live a full meaningful life and yet, never shirk your

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commitment. They are amazing. Gary Young: Well, marriage has taken a bad rap in the last 20 years or so. And like you're saying, and one of the things that has struck me particularly in this marriage, and now as we

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increase the flock that- that it's- it's your chance to live in a- in a truly magic- magical environment and there's- there's nothing more magical than in creating a child, certainly, except for perhaps living with one which is every day some new

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little miracle that you are blessed with being able to- to have it around. I mean, you don't get to take credit for it. The- the blessing is that you get to observe and be a part of it.

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Morton Marcus: Well, you are the most excited father I have- I have seen in years. I mean, you may become the archetype American father before this century is over. Gary Young: Worse things to become, I suppose. But here's a

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poem that came out of this period of pregnancy. She took my two hands in hers, pressed and caressed them as if she were bathing me. I hold hers as I was held in return, rolled them in mine, stroked her knuckles, her palms, then

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realized the finger I lightly traced was my own. How strange to find I could show myself such tenderness. Morton Marcus: That's great. That's beautiful, that really does it.

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Gary Young: To me, that's part of the magic I was talking about, that you find that, or I have found anyway, that by being married, you recognize the bride in yourself. I mean, as a man, there's- there's a part of you that- that recognizes what it is

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to be a bride, what it is to be a wife. And I think that- that is- that informs you as you carry on what is really your major role being a husband and a father. And without that side, without recognizing that side, I don't think you do a really good

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job. Morton Marcus: But it's more than that. I mean, it's the language is so clean, the dramatic situation is so sure, and the end is so unexpected and beautifully phrased. Why don't-

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why don't you read it again, it‘s really- is the best one as far as I'm concerned you read so far. Gary Young: ‘She took my two hands in hers, pressed and caressed them as if she were bathing me. I held hers as I was

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held in return, rolled them in mine, stroked her knuckles, her palms, then realized the finger I lightly traced was my own. How strange to find I could show myself such tenderness.‘ Morton Marcus: Beautiful. Again, here the rhythm takes over the

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poem, rhythm takes over. And it just seems to be so sure, every single movement of it. Gary Young: Well, the one thing about not using line breaks. And, you know one of the arguments against free verse is

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for people who would argue that poems should be metrical, should be rhyming is that, you can argu and it's true that you can tak any piece of prose and break i into lines, breaking it into l ne breaks. I think anyone w o's written it knows that does

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not make a poem and it's eas er- much easier said than done. But conversely, you can take any poem that's been written in ree verse and write it out as pr se. And I think more often than not it will not stand up as ood prose. And the trick and wha

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I- it's not really a trick, but what I have set myself to t e task in these poems is to ma e the prose clear enough and parse enough that it will st nd as poetry. I hope it Morton Marcus: Also in that last line, though, there's so much

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suggestion, I mean, the poem the prose keeps opening up afterwards. I mean, the sugges ion of it is so great. You know, I'm not even- I'm not gonna t y to interpret it or anything ike that. We are- we are tal ing with Gary Young about a n

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w book that he is writing of s ort prose pieces, we're g nna hear more of a book that he' just completed. And a little la er we will also hear from T. Mi e Walker who is visiting us an has some very interesting th ngs to say about a writer's con

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erence, which he is heading in very, very beautiful envi onment. We'll be hearing about hat and around 15 minutes. Right now, we are still talking with G ry, keep reading there. Gary Young: Here‘s another one of the longer pieces. One of the

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things that people can tell you about and warn you about when you're becoming a parent, -- and intellectually you can be prepared for it but you don't really understand until you become one -- is the anxiety that you live with. People say

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how wonderful, wonderful it is, what a joy it is, but people don't tell you that you will always worry and suddenly a lot of things have become clear in my experience as a child. Realizing now, just exactly what some of the impetus of- of a

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parent's behavior is, and one of the greatest impetus I think is- is fear, and it never goes away. And this is what this poem is about. Two falling limbs have taken a piece of the house each of the

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last two storms. For seven years, I have lived under this immense arching tree, acceptable risk for a man alone in the woods. The limbs fall, and each time I'm spared, I praise this peril for forcing fear and gratitude into my life. Now I

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want it gone. Is it danger alone that leads us to our prayers? And if hazard is the prelude, what cruel foolishness causes me to wake and beg, "Spare my wife and child, take me," like some criminal gambling with God?

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Morton Marcus: You had these feelings Michael? He's not on the mic, but you've heard him there, folks. Morton Marcus: That‘s right. T. Mike Walker: Absolutel

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Gary Young: I hadn't really- you know, this is the first time that I've read these poems. And coming up to this next one I- I suspect that thinking about that worry and what it is to be a parent was part of the genesis of this poem.

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I last saw my mother a week after her suicide in a dream. She was so shy. She was only there a moment. ‘‘Stupid‘‘ I'd call her. ‘‘How could you be so stupid?‘‘ Eight years later, she's back. ‘‘What do you want?‘‘ I ask her. ‘‘What do you

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really want?‘‘ ‘‘I want to sing‘‘ she says, and she sings. Morton Marcus: Does that have anything to do with the fact that your mother was- sang and danced? Gary Young: She really did just want to sing. And in a perfect

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world, that's all she would have done. In a perfect world, my cat wouldn't have been killed and that's what this poem is about. Our cat was killed in the first hour of the New Year. Later that night it snowed. I saw this as a sign. I grieve the loss of pure

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pleasure, love's small shadow at our feet. Now I see his final mark, the world without him. Wrens glean seeds beneath the window and a reckless thrush struts before the door all day. I had a cat, a big tom, orange long-haired cat, and I used to

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joke that he was my best friend, but he really was my best friend. And working at home as I do as an artist, I'm there all the time, my printing presses are there, and I spent more time with that cat than I did with any human being. And the curious

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thing after he was hit by this car on New Years, it didn't sink in at first, but something was different about the house and I thought it was just the fact that he wasn't there. And I also realized it for the first time in several years there were

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birds all over the place that had not been frequenting the homestead. One of the things that I've been trying to do in these poems is- is deal with how we accept our place in the world, and that's what this poem is about.

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My brother is talking about the world, about illusion. How after years of drunkenness and rage the mind clears, the heart calms. It is still an illusion, he says, but not an illusion created so poorly. This morning he went to a greenhouse and they

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offered him a gift and he asked himself, is this what I am? I have four tomato plants., I have a lot of friends up in the Pacific Northwest and I went up there for a brief visit this winter. And it's about the only

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other place in this country that I can imagine myself living the- The presence of so many powerful natural energies there: The cascades, you're surrounded by volcanoes, which are smoking and they really do look like they're breathing, the mountains look

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like they're breathing. The San Juan's, these enormous hunks of granite that just pop out of the water, and then the water itself is- is really overwhelming. And I was up there visiting a friend who's a translator from the Chinese, and also an artist, and

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we went out to do some drawing but there is problems with that in the wintertime, which is what this poem addresses. The channel life splits as the tide comes in. Boulders at the river mouth are frosted white, and cedars in the scant light

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glisten. Two eagles rise above the granite cliffs, than a third, than a fourth. I want to draw this landscape but the ink is frozen in the porcelain dish. T. Mike Walker: Could be Basho.

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Morton Marcus: Could be, couldn't it.. Gary Young: This is a very short poem. The chimes are silent, but spinning catch the sun and startle me as I read. What could I fear from the sudden,

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unpredictable apprehension of the light. This is a poem about storms.There is one thing about the pier here that I- that I really adore is when the storms come in real bad and the tide is up and the waves break over the

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pier and they usually block it off. I like to sneak out there and walk around while things are getting kind of crazy, and that's what this poem is about. On the third day of the gale, I climbed over the barrier and

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onto the pier. Salt spray spun from the pilings and met the rain and fierce broad plains. A slit in the horizon released a sliver of muddy light. Gulls drew themselves in and sat heads to the wind. The waves crested above and broke over the pier.

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The wind stuttered and howled, the timbers squealed and I was walking on the storm. Morton Marcus: Great. Nice. Michael, there is a an oriental effect, that Chinese or

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Japanese effect, which may be just the shortness of this and also the observed details of nature makes it very, very strong. Gary Young: Well the one thing about- about oriental literature

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in general that- that I appreciate is that there is- there is an assumed connivance between nature and the observer of nature. That it is assumed that there is going to be not only an effect on the viewer by the outside world, but

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conversely that the outside world is going to be affected by the observer. The landscape paintings, particularly of the of the Sung dynasty where- where you have these enormous landscapes and mountain ranges dissolving into further mountain

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ranges and mountain ranges beyond that, and if you look you usually miss it the first time: there, in one little corner hidden away will be this little teeny hut and sitting there in front of it will be a scholar writing or reading or playing a

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flute, and I've always been attracted to that living in the mountains as long as I have. That was one of the things that drew me to the mountains in the first place, the- the idea that one could be someplace and be a part of that place is very

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attractive to me. In cities I've never really felt that, I know that many people that are comfortable in cities do feel just that- that they are a part of the hive, they feel that they are part of of the energy that keeps the city going, I I just

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don't have the makeup for that but I- I appreciate that because that's what I feel. Morton Marcus: In the mountains. Gary Young: In the mountains. One of the things that I've had

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for the last 20 years are orchards and fruit trees are really a way of- of telling time for me. I've always thought of them as, as being the best clocks. There's- there's always something different in a fruit tree and when you become really

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a nerd to- to how they move through the seasons they- they become better than any calendar, and that's what this poems about. The fruit trees bloom at once, but they're not an emblem for

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the season or for the days we cannot penetrate. Hours somehow removed from who we are. The days accrue, and time surrounds us. There is no now or then, only more, and next. Morton Marcus: Great, very good. I'm all for one more, and then

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we will take a musical break and have some announcements and- That doesn't mean it has to be the last one, we can come back and read more after the break. Gary Young: I'm reading the stars to figure my place here

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below. I watch the constellation slide and spill across the sky. There are star charts geared and matched to our lives. But here is the real map we were born to and fixed on. Not even the night is still, we are spinning with the stars, and heaven must wheel

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as well. Morton Marcus: Maria Gitten's(?) poetry workshop begins two days from now on July 7, and goes through August 18. And if you want to hear more information about that, call Maria Gitten at

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722-8535. That's Maria Gitten at 722-8535 and that workshop, which is a poetry workshop, and which will have a lot of writing going on in it, will begin July 7. And as I said, continuing for a month and a week. We are rapidly approaching the deadline

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of July 15 for submissions for In Celebration of The Muse number eight. So I hope that you have sent or are planning to send in your poems, writers interested in reading in the Celebration of The Muse eight readings this fall, should

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submit no more than three to five poems or three to five pages of prose. Send your work to post office box 971 Felton, California 95018. And I will repeat that one more time: send you three to five pages of prose or three to five poems, to post

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office box 971 Felton, California 95018. And next week will be the last announcement for that on the July 12 show with Patrice Vecchione who is taking over for Joe Stroud as you know, and Patrice is one of the directors of In Celebration

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of The Muse. And this brings us to our other guest for the evening, who has consented to come in and talk with us. And that is T. Mike Walker, the novelist, short story writer, editor, and also ethnic musicologist. How's that sound?

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His show, in fact, was on today from 1 to 3pm and he has a creative writing workshop going on at Paraiso Hot Springs. Why don't you tell us some about it Michael? T. Mike Walker: Actually, Morton it- it's- this particular first

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one and I think the second one are going to be breaking through writing blocks, seminar kinds of workshops, small one, short ones. And in fact the more I thought about it, the more I decided to not even worry about even breaking even on them but

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to just get them rolling. So we've- we were kicking around the idea of reducing the price of the workshop for students and citizens, and then it occurred to me, I said, ‘‘well, you know, anybody taking the workshop would be then a student.‘‘ My

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wife said, ‘‘Yeah,‘‘ and I said, ‘‘then everybody who takes the workshop should get the student discount.‘‘ Morton Marcus: Michael, you're never going to become a rich man this way.

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T. Mike Walker: No, but boy, I'll sure to be a happy poet. And so we cut that price in half, and so right now exactly half of what it was, and since we can't talk prices on the air -- I know about that, -- call 425-5755 you can find out. But

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really, what this basically does is pay for the campsite, and the food, we're going to feed them, everybody four meals, and it's going to run from Saturday morning through Saturday night and Sunday morning. So it's kind of a marathon writing experience

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with lots of three minute, 10 minute, 20 minute shots at different forms of writing and techniques I've been working out at Cabrillo College for the last several year. Morton Marcus: Well, I want to just say some that you would not

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say, that Michael is not only a novelist with a published novel and short stories, and he's been an editor, but he has been teaching writing now for more than 20 years and has really worked out a lot of techniques. And getting rid of writing

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blocks, creative or expository writing blocks are a very, very difficult thing. And if you have that problem, if you're still going to school and you're taking English, I would urge you to go down to Paraiso Springs. Why don't you tell us about

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these Paraiso Hot Springs also. T. Mike Walker: You know, this used to be an Indian healing place down past Soledad back in the Santa Lucia Mountains, very sensuous and liquid place. There were originally seven hot pools

00:32:07.720 - 00:32:21.340

and I don't know what's happened with the earthquakes and things, but only two of them are tappable right at the moment. But they're lithium rich mineral waters, the kind of stuff you buy in the bottle for lots of money, you can sit in vast pools

00:32:21.340 - 00:32:35.170

of this heated volcanic water down there. It's one of those places where you do wear bathing suits, some of them you can go happily naked, but not in this one. It's- evidently back in the 60s they did but it's changed its character.

00:32:35.350 - 00:32:45.450

Morton Marcus: It's got a real feeling of the 40s in it, too, doesn't it, and it's got palm trees. T. Mike Walker: Folks used to train up from LA and Hollywood and vacation there and then it burned down and they've rebuilt

00:32:45.450 - 00:32:57.570

it. A lot of the old buildings are still there, old cabins- I'm staying in one, the floor slope in every direction. In fact, feels very much like being in the Mystery House in Santa Cruz everything- every time you take a step you're in another

00:32:57.570 - 00:33:11.190

dimension. But there are these 40-50 foot palm trees, date palm trees that sway in the wind, and my friend, musician Steve Bergman, was just down there yesterday we were talking and he came in with his girlfriend, and they got out of the car and they

00:33:11.190 - 00:33:24.810

looked around and said ‘‘where did which airport did we land in, was it Bangkok or Hawaii or Mexico?‘‘ and we were looking around, we couldn't really- it could have been any of those places because it's a kind of paradisaical feeling. Course

00:33:24.810 - 00:33:35.290

then the Spanish seized it and it's gone into private property since then, but it's still very remote, very maintained- well maintained grounds, quiet, peaceful. Morton Marcus: It seems like a perfect spot to have-

00:33:35.000 - 00:33:49.610

T. Mike Walker: And they just put up a 30 foot yurt out in the back beautiful, round, Native American dwelling place except that this one has a dome in the middle. And it's back behind it at the foot of the mountains and the minute I saw it, I thought

00:33:49.610 - 00:34:01.610

oh God, a perfect classroom. You know me with my team [cross talk]. We can't have a fire in this one but we can have the circle in the round space. And I realized that the thing about art and the thing about writing and for me, what I've been

00:34:01.610 - 00:34:12.920

finding is that you have to be able to slow down enough to do it. If you're out there in the world- when I'm writing, when I'm teaching rather at Cabrillo I can't really write a lot because I'm busy out there in that world, and so you have to

00:34:12.920 - 00:34:28.310

slow down for art, slow down and get still and let it get born out of you. And I realized when I first hit Paraiso and fell into one of those 106 degree pools of hot water and just lay there, after about 10 minutes that you could feel the layers

00:34:28.310 - 00:34:35.750

streaming off and suddenly real stuff, bubbles of gold started floating up. Morton Marcus: I haven't seen you look this rested in years, you really look great.

00:34:35.000 - 00:34:46.700

T. Mike Walker: Then I started writing, and the thing with the yurt is I want to have a dream wheel. Now, I don't know if you've ever read Dorothy Bryant's book, "The Kin of Ata Are Waiting for You" and the character in that book is a

00:34:46.700 - 00:35:03.560

writer and he ends up on this island for a long period of time where they- People sleep in wheels at night and in the morning when they get up they tell each other their dreams. And what I want to do is have people sleep together in the

00:35:03.560 - 00:35:17.150

wheel in the yurt, and I'm going to give them techniques that I've used through the years for remembering dreams, fishing the dream, hooking them in, writing them down, and getting them written down. And then in the morning writing again about the

00:35:17.150 - 00:35:28.070

dreams and then sharing about the dreams. My theory- I have theories about what might occur but of course, I've never tried it either, so it'd be interesting to see it. Morton Marcus: Sounds great Michael. Now, is there someone

00:35:28.070 - 00:35:37.770

to take the phone message right now? T. Mike Walker: If they call 425-5755 and read their name and address, when I go home I'll answer them. Morton Marcus: Okay.

00:35:38.020 - 00:35:45.460

T. Mike Walker: They are- They'll be on my machine and- Morton Marcus: Ok good. T. Mike Walker: -after that, I would say just come down for this Saturday's workshop, just show up, classes are going to

00:35:45.460 - 00:36:01.960

start about 11 on Saturday morning, and go through various stages of unfoldment as we get through to Sunday afternoon. There lots of time to go immerse in the tubs, by the way, and why that's part of the homework i for people to leave th

00:36:01.960 - 00:36:11.500

classroom and go out int nature Morton Marcus: Slow down and enjoy. T. Mike Walker: Slow down. And to do that, I wrote a poem about one of the assignments that I probably won't give, but this

00:36:11.500 - 00:36:14.680

came out down there. Morton Marcus: Okay T. Mike Walker: Can I share it? Morton Marcus: You certainly can.

00:36:15.050 - 00:36:29.160

T. Mike Walker: It's sort of posing with some of the natural focus that you were getting there. It's called: TREE TALK and it begins: Select a tree which calls to you, go to it gladly. Stand in

00:36:29.160 - 00:36:48.780

its umbra, smell it, hug it, feel the texture of its bark, taste leaves, be still and know that you are tree. What sort of saps soars through your limbs? What hymns have hummingbirds taught you? What kinds of fruit or nuts do you bear? What seeds?

00:36:49.170 - 00:37:08.490

Tell of the birds which nest in your branches? Which bugs swarm from root to stem? Where are you sour, where sweet? Climb as high on yourself as you can, stretch out on your limbs, and sway with the winds. Close your eyes when you think that you finished,

00:37:08.760 - 00:37:27.290

begin. Tree talk, turn your impressions into words. Morton Marcus: That is Mike Walker and he is giving a "Breaking through Writing Blocks" writer's workshop really, this Saturday and Sunday, July 9th and 10th. And

00:37:27.290 - 00:37:48.770

he's doing it at Paraiso Hot Springs, that's P-a-r-a-i-s-o Hot Springs in the San Luci Mountains. Look up your map or better, I do suggest to find out all information: the bedding, the camping the food, call 425-5755, 425-5755 and you'll

00:37:48.770 - 00:38:00.350

find out much more detailed information. If an answering machine answers, just give it your number and your name, and Mike will be back to you. Thanks a lot for stopping by Michael. T. Mike Walker: Thank you Mort. Thank you, Gary. Keep writing

00:38:00.350 - 00:38:08.270

and reading here. I'm going to stay here and listen to some more. Morton Marcus: Great. And we are talking -- in case you wonder, this is The Poetry Show of course, and that's why Michael

00:38:08.270 - 00:38:23.600

is on -- we are talking with Gary Young and we have been listening to new poems, pieces of prose. And now we are going to get into maybe more prose and also some of the poems from this book that Gary has been working on for the last nine years. Tell

00:38:23.600 - 00:38:30.410

us about it Gart? Gary Young: Well, which book? Morton Marcus: The long one which- the one that you'd been working on for nine years, the actual book of poems.

00:38:30.690 - 00:38:47.370

Gary Young: Well, it was a long labor, obviously. And in between the writing of that book I was- I was doing quite a lot of other stuff, primarily making prints and printing books. And that's one of the reasons that this prose book has been so much fun,

00:38:47.370 - 00:39:03.720

it's come in just a rush. And it's been a different kind of experience. In a way it's like Mike was talking about, it was like a huge block had been removed and the poems are just coming out.

00:39:04.170 - 00:39:11.760

Morton Marcus: Now that's- in the end of this- this book, not the prose poems? Gary Young: Right, at the end of the other book and then- and then it just continued on with this new book.

00:39:11.780 - 00:39:18.320

Morton Marcus: Right. Now would you like to read them some of those poems from the other book, or you want to finish on some prose pieces? Gary Young: How about these new ones? I'm enjoying this. It's

00:39:18.320 - 00:39:28.330

the first time I read them. Gary Young: At least I'll read a few more of these and then maybe Morton Marcus: Okay. Great, good. read the last section of the last book. Talking about

00:39:29.380 - 00:39:48.440

parenthood and that being an impetus to removing writer's blocks, well, here's a poem about the birth of our son. Our son was born under a full moon. That night I walked through the orchard and the orchard was changed as I was.

00:39:49.310 - 00:40:04.220

There were blossoms on the fruit trees, more white blossoms on the dogwood and the tiny clenched fists of bracken shimmered silver. My shadow fell beside the shadow of the trees like a luster on the grass. And wherever I looked, there was

00:40:04.220 - 00:40:26.140

light. Space and time being vessels. Perhaps God had no choice but to fill them. Creation may have been necessity. This afternoon a timber on the ledge above me slid past its fulcrum and had to

00:40:26.140 - 00:40:49.240

fall. This was accident, not purpose. It hit my wrist but how did it miss my head, my hand? The baby fusses, I read a book to quiet him, and he calms, his fingers open, show a lifeline, heartline, all the fates lurking

00:40:49.240 - 00:41:10.560

in his flesh. He's asleep when I finish, and one hand closes in a fist around my thumb. Where did he learn even dreams must be tethered to the earth. Talking about slowing down and, and being in a place where-

00:41:11.940 - 00:41:30.690

where time slows down enough, where you can hear yourself think. I- I can't agree more about needing that to write. I live on a confluence of two streams and sometimes the- the noise of that stream has that effect and is kind of hypnotic,

00:41:30.990 - 00:41:46.170

that's what this poem speaks to. The stream echoed through the canyon and it seemed the current no longer flowed, but hovered and was held as we were in the insulating mist where time circled itself, uncertain of

00:41:46.170 - 00:42:13.060

direction, until a peacock screamed, a tractor coughed, and the 1000 wheels began to spin again. I was reading at a college over in Modesto and spent some time hanging around a farm out there and saw a very peculiar and

00:42:14.770 - 00:42:35.850

tragic thing happen, and that's hat this poem is about: The stillborn calf lies near the fence where its mother licked t e damp body then left it. A l afternoon she has stood besid a large white rock in the mid le of the pasture. She nuzzles

00:42:35.850 - 00:42:50.070

it with her heavy neck and will ot be lured away. This must b her purest intelligence t accept what she expected Something sure, intractable, th whole focus of the afternoon s pale ligh

00:42:54.680 - 00:43:14.980

Talking about how children create that- that change in us. Sometimes I wonder if that change isn't always ready for us, is waiting. Queen Anne's Lace crowds the air; cicadas call from beyond

00:43:14.980 - 00:43:31.150

the stream. Monkey flowers rouge the hill below a pasture where six horses crop sage; and below the road between riprap at the river mouth, down gullies and the wasted ravines, thistles are showing us their hearts again.

00:43:31.000 - 00:43:44.960

I'll read a couple more, and then I'll read some from the last book. Morton Marcus: Well, it's interesting to see how interested you've got in these poems. Hearing yourself read

00:43:44.960 - 00:43:58.010

them, and I guess you're gonna go on to the other poems, and it's just really obviouse they've grown on you. Gary Young: Well, like I said, this is the first time I've read them to an audience, and reading them to someone else you hear

00:43:58.010 - 00:44:19.120

them I think as an audience yourself. Still being so new, it's- it's fun for me to to hear them out loud. I walked through the camellias to calm myself and pulled the only blossom to my face. Aw, that flowers so perfect, so

00:44:19.120 - 00:44:41.080

serene, could have no scent, that my heart could be a currency for the traffic and anger. Something that I still can't get over that something is as marvelous and liberating and joyful as having a child. And

00:44:41.080 - 00:44:53.500

you still find yourself being susceptible to moods and anger and all your full frailties. You somehow expect them to just fly away, but they don‘t. I'll read one more poem and from this new book.

00:44:54.950 - 00:45:10.250

The swallows hide their children in the dark and frail mud cups beneath the roof. They fly from the house and come back. They make loops in the treacherous air, then return. They live here too. And they're not afraid.

00:45:13.580 - 00:45:19.460

Morton Marcus: We used to have them at Cabrillo, remember, Michael? I don't know what the hell happened, but they're not there anymore. T. Mike Walker: [Inaudible]

00:45:25.630 - 00:45:30.940

Gary Young: A few minutes left, I guess- Morton Marcus: Now this is from the last section that came in a Gary Young: This is from "The Dream of a Moral Life," which I rush.

00:45:33.570 - 00:45:51.840

worked on for so long it became more of a- of a trial than a book. I really did- I just wanted to finish it so badly and couldn't. Every time I'd think it was done, I'd realized I needed another section or a new poem. And then finally, I

00:45:51.840 - 00:46:03.620

finished this last section and I was real happy. When I wrote the last poem, I knew it was done, and there's no greater feeling of relief and joy. Morton Marcus: How many poems are in the book now?

00:46:03.870 - 00:46:13.080

Roughly. Gary Young: Roughly about 45. Morton Marcus: And this is the one that's being sent around now. And we wouldn't tell you folks it's almost won a number

00:46:13.080 - 00:46:30.810

of contests. Gary Young: Well, what do they say, hand grenades and horseshoes, right? Well, the the impetus to this new book is clearly marriage and babies and that's- that was what wrapped up

00:46:30.810 - 00:46:43.810

the last section of the last book, so I'll read those poems. A poem called: DAWN AT LAS GAVIOTAS Everything is rising. Past the firethorn and the crimson roofs

00:46:43.810 - 00:47:03.520

the tide is in. The small island sleep underwater now, and the nuthatch, house finch, the darling mockers all sing. I hear the many voices lifted, the whispered prayers of thanks all answered, and rest well, astonished even in gratitude by

00:47:03.520 - 00:47:20.970

my bride's quick breath beside me, so steady in this huge and violent light. I was asked if I wrote that poem- and it appeared in the magazine and I got a letter saying, asked me ‘‘what do you

00:47:20.970 - 00:47:34.140

mean a 'violent light?' How could it have been violent? It seems like such a peaceful thing, with your bride, is obviously a honeymoon or something." And I really didn't understand the question. Anyone who's woken up after deep sleep

00:47:34.140 - 00:47:51.480

and found someone in their bed who they are married to knows what violent light is about. This poem is called: IN AUGUST The tangled chimes made little music as the wind picked up. It

00:47:51.480 - 00:48:07.980

was warm, and the small hard persimmons were still green in the swaying branches of the tree. Nothing moved in the windows. Yellow poppies closed as the light was dimming, and somewhere jasmine was in bloom. The breeze reached the rabbits

00:48:07.980 - 00:48:22.710

in their pins and settled them. The sky was empty of any bird. All things needing rest rested. And there were nine of us sitting silently at a table, sharing the same air that washed over and passed on.

00:48:30.010 - 00:48:49.450

One of the things that preoccupies me up in Bonny Doon is stone work. I have built a lot of walls and decks and chimneys and the cement is cheap and the stones out of the creek are free so I just keep adding on. And this poem is called:

00:48:49.450 - 00:49:07.810

POEM WRITTEN TO BE SEALED IN A WALL It is November, late afternoon, and the light is drawing quickly from the autumn sky. My work today is nearly finished and I must hurry, it will be dark when I lay the final stone. How

00:49:07.810 - 00:49:28.880

quickly things change: my wife has peopled this place with children in her mind and I build on for them. May I be gone 100 years when you find this. SEPTEMBER NIGHT

00:49:31.450 - 00:49:50.170

Clouds break before the full moon and deer step out of darkness to graze. My shadow is lying on the still wet grass like a shadow in daylight. It's beautiful to pass even briefly over the earth. How terrible to believe in nothing. I lift my

00:49:50.170 - 00:50:06.190

arms and the darker marks tremble. The startled deer move in a staggered halting line back into the woods. The moon beats on the corrugated tin of the coops, and in this cruel and lucid light, the metal roof is burning.

00:50:08.770 - 00:50:25.870

There's a turkey farm across the street from me And these long lines of corrugated tin coops. And on nights when there's a full moon, the moon hits them perfectly, and the whole side of the hill looks like it's blazing in the middle of the night.

00:50:29.410 - 00:50:40.210

Morton Marcus: Do you ever get any eggs from the turkey farm over there? Gary Young: No, no, you can still go over but I- Another thing about getting married, Mort, you don't eat eggs and

00:50:40.210 - 00:50:52.210

watch your cholesterol. Morton Marcus: God, Gary. Gary Young: How about I finish up with one short poem. Morton Marcus: Sounds great. Is it that time, look at that, good

00:50:52.210 - 00:51:01.690

lord. Gary Young: This is the last poem in this book and having read the new book, I think it's pretty clear where things were going. This is a poem called:

00:51:01.360 - 00:51:19.270

QUICKENING A child's shifting spirit drifts. My wife is growing. She is growing and the world makes room. Even time insists on being and being filled. And all the hours now are bodies.

00:51:19.900 - 00:51:32.960

Morton Marcus: Great, beautiful. We have been listening to Gary Young reading new poems from the end of his last book, which- give us the title one more time? Morton Marcus: "The Dream of a Moral Life," and a lot of poems,

00:51:29.050 - 00:51:37.880

Gary Young: "The Dream of a Moral Life" wonderful little prose form pieces from his new book, which I guess does not have a title yet? Gary Young: "Days"

00:51:37.880 - 00:51:47.300

Morton Marcus: It‘s just "Days." Well, it's been great to have you here and just listen to some of these poems. And we are lucky this is the first time they've been read, and I'm sure they delighted our listeners.

00:51:47.510 - 00:51:54.800

Gary Young: I hope so. Morton Marcus: Yeah, just wonderful, thanks, Gary. Gary Young: Thank you, Mort. Morton Marcus: I would like to say that this last half hour has

00:51:54.800 - 00:52:11.690

been brought to you by Plaza Books and Stuff on the Pacific Garden Mall. And we wish to thank them very, very much. Next week, Patrice Vecchione will be here with a show of her own. She is of course taking over for Joe Stroud, my compadre who is on

00:52:11.690 - 00:52:24.230

vacation in the Caribbean. And I should tell you that I've just gotten a long long missive from him. He is in Barbados, obviously in the opposite side of the island where- from where all the tourists are. He's gotten into this great empire

00:52:24.230 - 00:52:38.090

hotel where he is all alone. And there's only one other human being there and that other human being is George Lamming, the great Caribbean novelist who- New Directions and everyone brought out his novels in the late 40s and early 50s. They

00:52:38.090 - 00:52:52.580

struck up a friendship. Joe' wandering around writing an eating good Caribbean food an he's on his way to Trinidad a of this moment, but he will b back within two weeks. Nex week, as I said, Patrice, and s e will tell you more about t

00:52:52.610 - 00:53:05.000

e Celebration of The Mu e Readings. I will be back t e week after that. But I wou d like you to remember Breaki g Through Writing Blocks, which s going to be the creative writi g workshop at Paraiso Ho Springs hosted by T. Mike

00:53:05.000 - 00:53:24.020

Walker, of Cabrillo College and KUSP. And for more information on that, and that is happening, remember, this weekend, July 9t and 10th, Saturday and Sunday for more information on tha call 425-755 We hope you enjo ed the show and we will be b

00:53:24.170 - 00:53:26.810

ck next week, as I said, ith Patrice Vecch