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Morton Marcus: And good evening everybody. This is Mort Marcus and this is the Poetry Show and with John Coltrane ushering us in with his tumultuous specs and gasps. We are going to welcome Abby Bogomolny, who is our guest for the night. Abby is the

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author of three books of poetry, the latest is, "People Who Do Not Exist." And she has edited an anthology of writing by people whose descendants and who they themselves have just come to the United States called, "New to North America, Writing

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by U.S. Immigrants, Their Children, and Grandchildren." Abby is also a broadcaster. She's produced a lot of shows, not only on KUSP radio, but many other places. Abby, this is long overdue. Welcome to the Poetry Show.

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Abby Bogomolny: Thank you. It's really a pleasure to be here tonight. Morton Marcus: Great. Abby, I always ask a whole lot of sophomore questions, but questions which allow the

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listener to find out who Abby Bogomolny is. Where are you from, Abby? Abby Bogomolny: Originally I'm from Brooklyn, New York. Morton Marcus: A fine place.

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Abby Bogomolny: Yes, an excellent place, one that provides countless topics for writing and continuous stimulation. Morton Marcus: Now, I know you got your MA in creative writing

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from San Francisco State. When did you actually move out here? Abby Bogomolny: I moved to the Santa Cruz area in 1984. Morton Marcus: From the East Coast. Abby Bogomolny: Well, I did a little detour through North

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Florida, through Gainesville, Florida. So you could say that I lived in the Northeast, I lived in the Deep South, and now I have taken on the West. Morton Marcus: How and when did you start writing, Abby?

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Abby Bogomolny: I started to write when I was about nine years old, and it was a letter to God. I actually- I figured the only way you could deliver a letter to God would be to go up on the roof and, you know, throw it off the side of the apartment

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house that I lived in. And the wind took it, and I think he received the note. Morton Marcus: Did he take it up or down? Abby Bogomolny: Well, the wind had a way of whipping it, in

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spirals, spirals through a key. Morton Marcus: Well, I'm going to have you read a lot of your poetry tonight and talk about it as much or as little as you want to. It's a great chance, as you as a broadcaster know, for poets

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to talk about their work, so that it just doesn't sit shivering on the page all by itself. And they can flesh it out, give it beautiful costumes and overcoats and things like that. But my interest, and I'm sure this is going to have an

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interesting answer from you, is, what do you hope to accomplish in your poetry? Abby Bogomolny: I would like people to hear my words and feel and think, but most importantly, the places I've been, the

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emotions, and sentiments, ideas, and reflections on the world around me, they may be able to relate to that. They may say, well, you know, that happened to me too, but a little bit differently. I hope to inspire the listener, to inspire the

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reader to either express his or her own thoughts, or perhaps more deeply contemplate their own life as a result of hearing what has gone on in mine. Morton Marcus: Great, terrific. I'm sure that everyone out there

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and I, who have never heard you read even though I've read these poems, look forward to hearing you read. So what are you going to read first? Abby Bogomolny: Thank you. Well, the title of the latest

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collection is, "People Who Do Not Exist." And obviously the title may raise a few eyebrows. People who do not exist, who are they and why did I choose that for a title? Well, it's the title poem of the collection. Most importantly, "People Who Do

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Not Exist," is is a sign of hope for me, the poem itself, because the main theme of the first poem I'll read is that people who do not exist cannot die. And I'm speaking about those who may be marginalized in society for one reason or another. And if people

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who remain unrecognized do not exist and they cannot die, then we have everything to be hopeful about. In other words, there will always be survival and resistance. And I know that there's a certain freedom to not being recognized, if you will.

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So either side of the coin, it's a sign of hope, and I'll share that with you tonight. PEOPLE WHO DO NOT EXIST They do not mind being homeless or without jobs. When the census

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cannot count them and an employer cannot call them, they did not exist–unlike people in phone books or on mailing lists. People who do not exist do not mind sleeping under bridges, in parks or alleyways. They do not get hungry, they do not feel

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their stomachs. They do not get colds or pneumonia, get skin rashes, or hurt their backs. People who do not exist do not need counseling, psychological counseling, career counseling. Whose psyche, what career?

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People who do not exist... can not work. People who do not exist can not die. Like the migrant workers camped outside of Homestead, Florida during Hurricane Andrew, August 1992, who didn't count because

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they were brown and poor, unlike people who were evacuated, people who were known to exist. And when the 160-mile-an-hour winds swept through the marshes, people who did not exist did not see their shacks being torn

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apart, did not feel the pain of tearing limbs, or bleed from flying scraps of metal trailers, nor did they need fresh water or food after the storm like people who owned homes, cars, and bought things at Kmart.

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And when the South Florida director of migrant affairs was questioned by NPR on the fate of the missing Homestead workers, he said difficult "bureaucratic" in changing demographics made it impossible to look for people who might not exist in the first

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place. Suppose you had been carried away to the kingdom of Oz, and the only public response to your death was one of, "changing demographics"?

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But people who do not exist can not die. If people do not matter, try telling that to a crying child, a sick child, a hungry child, "Oh, that's just environmental racism, honey." Try telling your child that the reason he or she

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has asthma is because an industrial incinerator just opened down the block or maybe leukemia or slow-healing wounds from other types of toxins that's been spilled in your neighborhood, your town, your reservation. Isn't there

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something wrong, something damn greedy wrong when more and more people are just ceasing to exist? But people who do not exist can not die. Morton Marcus: That is the first poem in the book and so it sets

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the tone. Abby Bogomolny: The tenor. Morton Marcus: And the tenor and the subject matter. Go on, read some more.

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Abby Bogomolny: Well, this collection tends to have two sections that are very different from each other. The first one tends to respond to injustice and comment, and it's not as personal of a poetry as the second section. I'll share a few

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from this commenting on conditions around us and the fact that more and more people seem to be dropping off the edges, if you will, and not recognized. But the second portion is a real look at my family and the things that I

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value about my Brooklyn childhood and the culture that spawned me, the culture that gave me the fundamental, you know, values and love for life, and words and literature. But I'll share one more in response to the world around us. It's

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called: A TRIP TO THE DONUT SHOP, and it looks back on a few things and- as well as the food of the present. Donut shops are bus stations that collect the frustrations of

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caffeinated job-hunters and the mumbling disenfranchised. What brings our bodies to seek our own slow death through white flour promises of maximum shelf life and instant pleasure? Gurgling, and tender as children, we are baited with

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sugar and tainted by greasy history. Molasses boiling, the fried smell of too many lives gone. Tell me, who picked the sugar cane? Who picks the cane now, sugar? Donut shops, quick fixes, our own slow death. Too many mumbling frustrations and

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excuses. I never stopped to think about sugar and the history of it and the impact on our culture until maybe about- maybe nine years ago, and I could never walk into a donut shop or really eat white

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sugar in the same way that I did in the past. Not to say I don't indulge, but it opened up a whole new realm of things. There's another piece that is really a poem of praise. And it's dedicated to the things that, at first glance, may annoy

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us, but perhaps they're blessings. And so this is a poem of praise entitled, "Praise Me Too." You may notice a few of the annoyances listed within. PRAISE ME TOO

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Am I blessing or curse? Devil or prophet? Weirdo or genius? Muse or interruption? I am the aunt at your picnic, the squeak in your ride, the roach in your kitchen, the rash on your arm, the sex in your convent, the graffiti on your wall, the dent

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in your paint job. I am the leak in your roof, the ham in your synagogue, the static on your phone, the mosquito in your ear, the hole in your condom, the rust in your water, the blood in your urine. I am as normal as your gas bill and just as

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unwelcome. If only you knew how to read me, I could save your life. Praise me too for I also serve what is just and good in this world. Morton Marcus: You know Abby, on that poem, for the people out

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there, you say that, "If only you knew how to read me, I could save your life," who or what is speaking in this poem? Abby Bogomolny: The annoyance, the thing that the voice- is the voice of the leaky roof, the mosquito, the problem.

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Morton Marcus: But it is also the perfect metaphor for the poet who brings the whole perception to turn, the last words you used, around and gives us a sense of the life that we don't want to see, the sense of the use of words we don't want

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to see. And in that way, the poet can save our lives because it is making us perceive the totality of life. And lovely that way, lovely metaphor, but of course it has all of those different meanings you mentioned, not just this one.

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Abby Bogomolny: Yeah, I'm just hoping that you know, the old practice of stoning the messenger is not in operation. You know, it may be our role as artists to perhaps, you know, call attention to things that may not be pleasant at times,

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that people may not want to acknowledge. And there's a Vietnamese saying that when someone points- that when a finger points at the moon, the fool looks at the finger. Morton Marcus: That's great.

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Abby Bogomolny: And unfortunately, there's a great deal of attempt to silence those that may bring up things that are unsavory at times but- Morton Marcus: But that has always been a lot of the serious

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artists and certainly the literary artists, the poet, and that's how- because by doin this, and by using language in Abby Bogomolny: I praise the jester, you know. I praise the fresh way, he is th revolutionary par excellence

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And so, in one totalitaria regime after another, that's ho they sound. So we don't do th t in this country because no on cares about poetry. [Chuckles So we just keep on singing for hoever will listen out there, and for making some of these cha

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jester but, you know, raditionally the jester was lways entitled to make fun of hose who may have the true ower in the society, you know, he king, or whoever holds the eal wand in the society then he court jester can perform

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round him. And so you can say t at the first portion of this b ok tends to poke, you know, poke at those places that may need t at, or people who have been wan ing to express those sentiments can say, "Oh, yes, here's a vo ce. You know, I was thinking th

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t." I definitely Morton Marcus: Were you planning on reading, "Ghosts in the Shopping Center," by any chance? Abby Bogomolny: Oh, I wasn't. I wrote that a very long time ago.

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And actually, that poem refers to a real Superfund toxic w ste site that's located in G inesville, Florida. And there i some real history, but let me ind it first. Morton Marcus: It's on page 25.

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Abby Bogomolny: Okay, that's- yeah, that one is an oldie for me, a true oldie. I wrote it quite a while ago. There's something here that appealed to me. Perhaps going back to my Brooklyn roots, my mother grew up in Coney Island, and I spent

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a great deal of time in Coney Island whether it was summer or winter, and Coney Island in the middle of winter is a very interesting place. Morton Marcus: I love that. I mean, it's all of the film noir

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movies you ever conceived of making. Abby Bogomolny: Exactly, exactly. GHOST OF THE SHOPPING CENTER Like Coney Island in dead winter, the shopping center wind

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blows the debris of former promotional wonders in dirty circles. Carts of the shopping center, strewn on their side after they've taken you for a ride, line the asphalt, practicing other accidents. Just an old yard with rusty barrels,

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nothing that a coat or two of tar and gravel couldn't turn into a parking lot. But the builders didn't figure there would be such a fuss. Big deal if the drainage ditch fed into Hogtown Creek. Now the rains washed the toxins into the lime

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rock water table and the ghost shows its hollow and quivering face in the blood of children who wave their arms differently and stare in two directions. In this moral warp of twilight, adults think they are sick with headaches.

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So that Superfund waste site I believe that they were supposed to clean up that spill. There was actually, you know, it literally was a yard with barrels that had PCBs in it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, looking at the past and where we

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come from, you know, I'm at the point in my life where I'm able to reclaim some of the things that perhaps drove me away from my place of origin, i.e. Brooklyn, and my really very, very traditional family. What I mean by traditional is a very,

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very old world kind of family, particularly my father, who's first- Morton Marcus: First generation? Abby Bogomolny: Well, my father was barely born here. He was

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born the minute my grandmother, you know, stepped off the boat, just about, and his first language was Yiddish. And he never left the Lower East Side and very Jewish neighborhoods of Brooklyn. So he never lived anywhere, anywhere else his

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entire life, he barely traveled anywhere else. He left New York State I think once in his life, you know, to- when he went to Ne Jersey and that type of thing but nowhere really, you know extensive. It's taken me number of years to see what hi

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life was really about, you know what values drove his life, a d how he did, not just did t e best he could, but that he ma e conscious choices to he p others, namely his community a d those in his family, over what we would think of a very Ameri

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an drive to succeed materially, in other words, to get ahead to upward mobility, that wh le thing. He didn't take that ho k, you know, to move to the subu bs and to, you know, better him elf in terms of where he lived He stayed in an inner

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ity neighborhood and, you k ow, because that was his commun ty, he couldn't think of anyt ing else than to take care of t ose around Morton Marcus: It seems as though you really had a close

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family relationship though even when you were young and even though you may have gone away from that world, rediscovered, most people leave that world angrily and then years later, rediscover its richness. To have the listeners out there

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rediscover this richness, you're listening to the Poetry Show, and I'm interviewing Abby Bogomolny. So Abby, tell us what you're going to read now as well. Abby Bogomolny: Okay, this section is called, "Family

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Voices." And in terms of I'd say what my father's life stood for, in a real way, was that he purchased a small apartment house that has about six apartments in it in Brooklyn I'd say when he was in his 40s. And most people who get into that

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position use that as a way to leverage their life so that they can move on. The way he handled it was to provide low rent, long leases. He had a very anti-suburban attitude. His- you know, he wanted people to live there, you know, for twenty

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years if possible. Matter of fact, the only way people left that house, you know, was to, you know, was to pass away. We had tenants there that stayed for thirty-five, forty years. And consequently, I grew up in this apartment house feeling

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like that was a small village, very much like the front porch of Zora Neale Hurston stories. Morton Marcus: It's also an extended family, is what you had, which the days that I remember in Brooklyn, I mean,

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this is -- and I've just come back from there, I was there this January again and it's still there, you know -- it's a real residential place. Although now the people who are there, though there are still all the old Jewish people and the new

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Russians, now there's an enormous Arab population. And the Jews and the Arabs are just riding the subway together without any problems whatsoever, you know, and that's the way I remember Brooklyn. I mean, there were tensions, but it's an

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amazing, amazing place. So yes, that's a richness of life that a lot of people in the cities don't have anymore, certainly. Abby Bogomolny: In this, there was always a clash of values in my family, between my mother's brothers and my father. My

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father, you know, was dedicated to his community and this taking care of his tenants with these low rent, long leases type of attitude to keep them, you know, just have them stay there. But the rest of the family, you know, pushed him to, you know,

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sell that house, you know, go somewhere nice, you know, move. So, this is my- this is called, "So What's Next?" And it's it's my uncle speaking to my father and then you'll hear my father's reply. I'm on page 46.

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SO WHAT'S NEXT? New brass pipes. Very good. Brass is the best. But Sam, where's it all leading? What's next? Oh, the skylight, it's leaking. Well, maybe you won't have to replace it. I know, I

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know, they're very expensive. But what's next? Why not look at a newer place on Long Island? Does the world end at the edge of Brooklyn? He replies, "I tell you. It's no good for a person. Look at my sister, a prisoner in her own home. She doesn't drive,

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Harvey takes her everywhere. And what's she gonna see when she walks, empty lawns? There ar no people outside so she s ays home. I tell you, it's no g od for a person. Here, we hav life, people passing. I should run to Florida. Here, I sit an

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watch. We have people fr m every country here, Fran can w lk to shopping, you know, she d esn't d Morton Marcus: And of course, one of the ironies of living in our society is that this sense of community is there when

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you're poor. And as you get more and more money, you become more protective of the material things that you have and you begin to lose this extended family and this contact with people in the neighborhoods until you're living in these

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isolated homes with the empty lawns that your father saw. So he was well aware of what the dangers really were. Abby Bogomolny: Right, and he made a conscious choice to remain in that situation because that's where his heart was, and

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didn't go for the American dream, if you will, that upward mobility. And, you know, he cared about people, which is very anti-capitalist. It was very anti-, almost anti-American, if you will, you know, that this poem was, you

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know- he actually said this to me, you know, "I have to look them in the eye," and he meant the people who rented in his building. LOOK THEM IN THE EYE

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The Hoffmans upstairs in the back used to complain about not getting enough heat. Back then, the thermostat was on our side–south, so when the wind blew from the north, the heat wouldn't come up. They called us in their sweaters and say they

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were freezing. You know, I live here too, and every day on the stairs, I have to look them in the eye. Now, the new thermostat we put in faces north. We have nice people here but we wondered what will happen when the wind blows from the south? The same

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problem, maybe. That's why, well, we can push the..., well, don't let anybody know or they'll be calling us all night. You think I need to press it? Do you feel cold? So they had this little override button that they could press to

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bring the heat up because it's true, you know, you didn't know which way the wind would blow and then the tenants, you know, on one side would would not get heat. Morton Marcus: Was your dad's house made of brick?

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Abby Bogomolny: Brick, yeah, three stories, fire escapes, alleyways, you know, cement back yard. Morton Marcus: Outside wash. Abby Bogomolny: What do you mean?

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Morton Marcus: Well, maybe that has changed when you grew up. I'm a little older than you are. Abby Bogomolny: We had coal, we had a coal furnace and they delivered coal on a chute, you know-

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Morton Marcus: Okay, that- Abby Bogomolny: Then they changed it to gas and- Morton Marcus: What about the clotheslines? Abby Bogomolny: Oh, yeah. [Cross talk]

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Abby Bogomolny: Oh yeah. And a stoop out front, you know. Morton Marcus: Outside clothes lines? Through the alleys? Morton Marcus: Do you ever play stoop ball? Abby Bogomolny: Oh, always.

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Morton Marcus: Yeah, did you win? Abby Bogomolny: Yeah, I played mostly myself. I always won. When you play yourself, you know- But you get very skillful at bouncing a ball against the wall without any windows, you

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know. Morton Marcus: Oh, yes indeed. Abby Bogomolny: Your aim gets good. That's it, you know. It's really a very traditional thing to have your- your love before

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your community and your family rather than, you know, this rugged individualism of, you know, the U.S. ethic, you know. And, you know, I could see those tensions, I could see that I was being groomed to, in a way, be like my father but yet expected

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to be like the rest of the society. So I had these tensions that were pulling at me. And many of the people in the building, you know, became elderly. Eventually, of course, they lived there thirty-five years, but as a child I could

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knock on any door and of course be welcomed, you know, to come in. This next piece, my mother actually, you know, she said this to me once when I was visiting and it shows- it's a little funny, but you'll decide, you'll decide. She said:

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If you see something go by your window, that's just Tilly. What? Don't laugh. What do you mean? You never heard of such a thing. We'd be in the kitchen and we'd hear a plop in the courtyard. You know how the sound echoes. So your father would go down and

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there'd be a frozen chicken with the date still fresh. [Commentary] I'm on page 52. There'd be a frozen chicken with the date still fresh and still in the wrapper on the ground. Other days, there'd be little

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portions of meats and soups. Then we started to find fresh fruits in the garbage, bananas, oranges, such a shame in the cans, sometimes even an egg. It's Tilly throwing things out of her window. At first, we didn't want to believe it, but

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it was on our side of the courtyard, and who else in this building would throw out kosher meat? Her son didn't want to believe it either. You want to know what's in her mind? She sees her children come and clean her fridge when they visit.

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Maybe she thinks the food is bad. Her children come, cook for her, and leave her tupperware portions in the freezer. A health care worker stays during the day but at night she's alone and it's then we hear the window open.

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Morton Marcus: Nice, nice poem. Abby Bogomolny: Tilly once came down to see me, you know, because I was visiting, and she said, "I just had an operation. You know, it's my kidney here in my side." "You know," my mother

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said, "your kidney's not on your side." You know, she would, you know, kind of milk me, you know? It was- she definitely had something going, yes. But I began to write -- in a way, I was an only child -- I began to write so I would have someone to

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talk with, to, you know, to reflect. And however, my mother had a slightly annoying habit which would be to read my journals when I even hid it. Morton Marcus: And let us end in suspense on that as we take our

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half-hour break here. We're talking with Abby Bogomolny, an we will be back in a momen And that is John Coltrane honking out songs to the universe, and this is the Poetr Show and we're talking with Abb

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Bogomolny, but before we do, would like to read you som public announcements. First o all, the Porter Gulch Review i now accepting submissions fo poetry, prose, and origina work. Poetry with a maximum o four poems per writer, pros

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with a maximum of two pieces pe writer of five thousand words o less, and artwork which include photographs, drawings, o computer artwork. Both poetr and prose deadline is Marc 10th, artwork April 1st. There' also the wonderful "writers fr

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m another language" section, wh ch is a special category or writers whose first language is other than English. Please wr te Porter Gulch Review and if you're going to do "writers rom another language", just put WFAL on it and send your submis

00:31:56.160 - 00:32:15.870

ions, I would say, all of the w iting work, by March 10th, to ditor Porter Gulch Review, Ca rillo College, 6500 Soquel rive, Aptos 95003. And you ca even forget about that Soquel Drive just put it to Aptos 950 3 and it'll get there. And we w

00:32:15.870 - 00:32:35.040

nt to tell you about "In Celebra ion of the Muse," the 16th ann versary edition of this w nderful reading series of women n Santa Cruz. It'll happen S turday, March 7th and it wi l be at 7:30pm at the Santa Cr z Civic Auditorium at 307 Church

00:32:35.280 - 00:32:46.230

Street. And the reason for it eing at the Santa Cruz Civic Au itorium is that the overflow cro ds have been so great the last f w years that they have decided t put it where it probably belo gs, in a place where they can r ally see a lot of people. S

00:32:46.230 - 00:33:06.420

, that's Saturday, March 7th 7:30pm, next Saturday at the S nta Cruz Civic Auditorium. T ere is a donation at the door Then on March 10th, which is Tuesday, our guest toni ht, Abby Bogomolny and Fran es Payne Adler will be giving

00:33:06.450 - 00:33:23.520

reading at the Bookshop Sant Cruz at 1520 Pacific Avenue in Santa Cruz. And I urge you to go to that reading, not only ill Abby be reading her own ork, but also she and gues authors Rosemary Garcia and John Isbister will present s

00:33:23.520 - 00:33:38.880

lections from the recently ublished anthology that Abby has collected and edite called, "New to North America." One more reading that I want to tell you about, photograph r, nature photographer, Norma Locks, and yours truly, Mort

00:33:38.880 - 00:33:58.200

arcus, will be presenting a show on the nature of nature as part of the winter presentation f the Santa Cruz Natural History Museum this Tuesday at Louden elson. And I will be reading po ms on nature and discussing the mportance of the environment

00:33:58.200 - 00:34:15.750

nature in my work, and Norm n Locks will be talking about nd showing some of his marvel us nature work. That's this uesday night at seven o'clo k at the Louden Nelson Center fo the Santa Cruz Natural Histo y Museum Talks. But right now,

00:34:15.750 - 00:34:29.970

e are back with Abby Bogo olny and we are listening to h r stories about her childhood n Brooklyn, and her concerns w th those people who seem to be tossed aside by our society. bby, h

00:34:30.030 - 00:34:45.450

Abby Bogomolny: I've spoken a little bit about my father's response to living in this society and how he chose to care for his family and his community instead of his own personal, let's say getting ahead, you know, the American dream. I

00:34:45.450 - 00:35:12.090

haven't spoken about my mother yet and so I'm on page 56 here. My mother had a very intuitive approach to the tenants that lived there. She really cared for them. She helped people pass away, she helped babies be born, you know, she comforted people

00:35:12.090 - 00:35:28.830

through all the changes of a life cycle, much like a small village. And when I became a little bit more political, you'd say, you know, she approached my, let's say, environmentalism, you know, and caring about the earth and the land and, you

00:35:28.830 - 00:35:43.980

know, very much the same way that she cared for the people that lived there. And so this, this piece emerged. All- I was saying before, she also had an annoying habit of reading my journals in my early writing. And so I developed a secret

00:35:43.980 - 00:35:59.490

language, written with strange letters, you know, that she could not read. So, you know, I know there have been other authors that have written backwards and you know that type of thing, but I really have to thank her for, you know, having

00:35:59.490 - 00:36:11.850

me develop an intricate way of writing because now writing in regular language that anyone could read is very fast. I can take notes very quickly so I really have to thank her for that. This is called:

00:36:12.240 - 00:36:31.230

YOU WANT WE SHOULD MAKE THE EARTH A CHICKEN The weather has changed, ask anyone. In New York, October, it is eighty degrees then snows. Earthquakes, Armenia and Mexico City last year. China, Australia, California, Japan

00:36:31.230 - 00:36:49.290

this year. You go figure it. Women online at the library say weather is screwy because we walked on the moon. The pollution they say, the radiation, the bomb testing. Go fight City Hall. Who would believe all those deodorant cans

00:36:50.160 - 00:37:09.240

could add up. But everyone notices. Progress sits on concrete, and nice roads eat the land. Cousin Beryl says they've had five mild winters in Europe, first time since the 12th century? But for me, I'm going to be an expert yet? You want to

00:37:09.240 - 00:37:26.310

stay well, shayna madyl? You take your chicken, you clean out the heart, liver, pupik, neck and feet you put aside for soup. You take your salt and spread it over the entire body and say the prayer. You want we should make the earth a chicken? Some soup

00:37:26.310 - 00:37:49.530

we feed the earth to feel better. Very much my mother's approach to most problems, you know, you- feed them. But like all the people that stay in one place for a long time, you know, the neighborhood changed, and this

00:37:49.530 - 00:38:06.780

is again her voice. And again, many people remark that- they say this is poetry? Is this poetry? And I think there's great power in the spoken word, the spoken word, maybe not exactly what someone has said, but distilled, you know, the

00:38:06.870 - 00:38:23.760

choice phrases, and so much of my work tends to be that way. Morton Marcus: We're also capturing the voices that you heard. I mean, it's not song, it's speech. And as you said, it's distilled. And it seems to be the speech of the house and

00:38:23.760 - 00:38:36.300

the streets, but it really isn't. It's some- it's an artificial illusion of that, and that's what makes it poetry and that's what makes it art. And you've got it down. Abby Bogomolny: I've been listening to people.

00:38:36.330 - 00:38:41.040

Morton Marcus: Yeah. Abby Bogomolny: You know, I've been listening to people for a long time and- Morton Marcus: So the voice has come out of the past.

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Abby Bogomolny: That's it. The thing is that this, you know, I've- when I published this list, the list- the book that came out, and the anthology, I said, look, I've reproduced, I'm reproducing. Yeah, so that's what it's about. You know, I

00:38:56.160 - 00:39:09.300

think everyone tries to find a way to go on forever. Some people, you know, I think they channel that into their art. Morton Marcus: By the way, we are out here talking with Abby Bogomolny. And if you've just tuned in, she's reading from her

00:39:09.300 - 00:39:21.060

new and third book, which is called, "People Who Do Not Exist." And Abby, just wanted to let them know where can they get this book? Abby Bogomolny: Well, this book's available at Her Land in

00:39:21.300 - 00:39:34.410

downtown Santa Cruz as well as Bookshop Santa Cruz. Morton Marcus: And as I announced before, Abby will be reading on March 10th at 8pm at the Bookshop Santa Cruz with Frances Payne Adler, so-

00:39:34.990 - 00:39:47.590

Abby Bogomolny: Another wonderful poet, excellent writer. This is an interesting- GIRDLE, it's called. You have no idea what's going on in there. It's a madhouse, and

00:39:47.590 - 00:40:03.310

their cakes are not even that good. Such a line, you'd think they were giving away dollar bills. All the fine old places have left the neighborhood. I don't have much strength left today. Let's get home. I want to get into my girdle.

00:40:05.100 - 00:40:15.450

Morton Marcus: Yeah, I remember girdles from the 40s. I thought that they were, you know, they were just well, what went on with being a woman. And of course, I take it they have really gone out of style.

00:40:15.480 - 00:40:24.160

Abby Bogomolny: They have. Morton Marcus: You know, even the word girdle just summons back the 40s and that's it. Abby Bogomolny: Yeah. Yeah, my mother is definitely a fan. You

00:40:24.160 - 00:40:38.020

know, I think she did get strength from it, or she was taught to believe that, that would give her the strength, you know, and that's just a symbol for a whole set of actions and behaviors that [cross talk].

00:40:38.200 - 00:40:50.710

Morton Marcus: Well, it certainly holds you in, or impresses you. And, I mean, certainly that's part of it. I wrote a poem called, "A Woman in the Photograph," which is in my immigrant book, and in that one, I liken them to onions -- you

00:40:50.710 - 00:41:06.430

just kept taking off layer after layer after layer, but what was in the center, you know? And certainly the girdle is a great symbol of that, you know, holding in, everything being held in. And one thing that's happened to women in the last

00:41:06.430 - 00:41:20.650

thirty odd years or more is that they are not being held in anymore, either by themselves or by the society limit. Abby Bogomolny: We hold ourselves back only when we want to, put it that way, you know. But my mother has a very wicked

00:41:20.650 - 00:41:41.390

sense of humor, and this is a little bit of it. This was back just two years ago, we were reading the newspaper and: MOM WITH THE NEWS, JANUARY 1996, very young, very prosey here. Madonna, that's her? ...she looks pretty. What, she usually

00:41:41.390 - 00:41:55.820

doesn't? Not to me. She's got a reputation... and from nothing. And I don't like this guy Gingrich, he acts like a dictator. I don't like him at all. "The Times" is a thicker paper this week... with the article about the stalker after

00:41:55.820 - 00:42:08.660

Madonna, which reminds me of some strange people who are around, you know... who look for trouble... Like that day when I was in the fruit store standing on line and there was a guy that was behind me, and he didn't like that I just bent over to

00:42:08.660 - 00:42:22.550

take a basket to put my things in. I didn't leave the spot, I just bent over. So he starts hassling me, that I didn't belong, that I was taking his place. But he had such a wild look in his eye and he was foreign and he starts yelling at

00:42:22.550 - 00:42:37.640

me, so I said, "Why are you yelling at me? I'm standing here behind this lady." He acted so horrible so I said, "Go, go ahead." You let him go ahead of you? Yeah, I said, "Go ahead." He looked violent, he looked really... threatening. So what

00:42:37.640 - 00:42:51.500

did the paper say about...? That guy looks just like him, like the one who was stalking Madonna... like a madman... because there are crazy people around... and then in the post office, the nicest gentlemen, also a foreigner, gave me an

00:42:51.500 - 00:43:02.690

extra ten cents because I was putting money in the machine for a book of stamps, I didn't have a dime. You know, it's strange how some people are so kind and other people, they're so meshuganah.

00:43:03.800 - 00:43:19.820

You know, you don't know who you come up against. And there were so many foreigners now on Church Avenue from all over. When I go there, I feel as if I don't belong, that I'm not in this country. What country are you in? ...somewheres...nowheres.

00:43:20.240 - 00:43:35.060

What country does it look like? What does it sound like? It sounds like a place I never knew I'd live in. And they opened up a new Rite Aid just a couple of blocks away from Silverrod, the drugstore, and they're opening up another on 18th Avenue. Now

00:43:35.060 - 00:43:49.460

every other block has a Rite Aid. That's in the old Waldbaums? You know what it's got, besides drugs, all the other things that a stationary store would have, but they take up a bigger space. Sure. But every empty store, big empty

00:43:49.460 - 00:44:02.930

stores are being taken up by Rite Aid like a franchise, they're on Avenue J, every avenue has one. And they don't give you such bargains, they don't give you any bargains, really. I don't know what it's supposed to be...but now they're

00:44:02.930 - 00:44:15.020

spoiling things for the stationery store across the street. You know, the boys that own that store? It's spoiling it for them, it's spoiling it for Silverrod. Silverrod wants to expand a little bit. They have a sign up that they're expanding,

00:44:15.050 - 00:44:32.510

they have to compete. And to top it all off, Church Avenue has no place to eat... on Church Avenue. But there's a Chinese place. Just that. Isn't there a deli, a Jewish deli? Oh, yeah, Edna's, yeah. Is Scarola's still there? Yeah. So those are good

00:44:32.510 - 00:44:44.480

places. Yeah, but you don't go in there for lunch, you know... or for a snack. Well, you can go into the deli. You don't always want deli, one corned beef sandwich in the deli is over six dollars.

00:44:47.120 - 00:44:59.830

So that's a little bit of mom here. Morton Marcus: A little bit of Brooklyn. Abby Bogomolny: Yeah, definitely. You get the changes, you know, she feels a little displaced. The area is very- It

00:44:59.830 - 00:45:11.450

isn't just diverse, it is like truly the world, you know, it is, like we know, we were the world. This is, you know, this is the United Nations here. Morton Marcus: And it's true. I mean, that feeling is there when

00:45:11.450 - 00:45:25.190

you're in New York. It is the world, and so I know the psycho ogy that I had when I lived t ere and you probably did too is that there isn't much els . I mean, you don't need anyt ing else. The world is right t ere on that series of islands

00:45:25.310 - 00:45:43.000

and peninsulas and in Brooklyn as much as you have the sense hat you really have a microcos of the whole unive Abby Bogomolny: Whatever you are needing or looking to discover or take advantage of, you could probably find it somewhere in

00:45:43.000 - 00:45:59.410

that city, so it's true. But it's- you mentioned before that that you thought it was a goo thing that I was able to, yo know, always be close, you know to my parents. I spent about te years really, really not bein very close. I lived away

00:45:59.440 - 00:46:17.350

rebelling, but we always- w kept the lifeline, you know, w always spoke and, you know, I' say it took them ten years think- took me ten years t raise them after they spen eighteen years raising me. Yes we did a little mutual teach an

00:46:17.350 - 00:46:37.000

learn and- but you know yo never change people, so yeah There's one piece that's in "People Who Do Not Exist," tha also is in the the anthology "New to North America," that I' like to share because i celebrates my relationship wit

00:46:37.000 - 00:46:58.120

my father, really looks at h s life and it gives some of th t context. I should mention h w grateful I am, though, to J hn Isbister, who's the provost of Merrill College here at UCSC, for providing the contextual cha ter introductions to "New to No

00:46:58.540 - 00:47:12.910

th America." It was one hing to read literature, but t have some of the real world co text and some of the, you know, he historical information, it helps you understand its pla e, you know. He was able to rovide that. Th

00:47:12.850 - 00:47:34.650

DAD, I should say that I wrote this as he was beginning to to get ill, and it looked like we were going to have to really, you know, really prepare for the worst here. Dad, deep inside your bones, a mysterious agenda. To me you

00:47:34.650 - 00:47:53.730

confide, "I don't understand what is happening to my body." Medical reality: needle based profit, analytical brokers, power drugs, cold as an examining table, kind doctors lost to insurance, hospitals and nursing homes crack the

00:47:53.730 - 00:48:13.850

continent. The feeling of families are open and bleeding health care proxies, I.V. to the vein of intelligence. The kindness of your past, dear father, draws the suburban nieces and nephews into the city to see you. You always gave me a

00:48:13.850 - 00:48:29.840

handful of dimes and quarters so I could have change, told me what I needed to know, who were friends to the Jews during the war, you had the list: not Ford, don't buy their cars, those antiShimityn, you screamed at the TV.

00:48:31.160 - 00:48:47.570

How you were hit by a street car, running after your sister at age five and saved by a free clinic on Henry Street. How you walked blocks and blocks in the snow to school on Blake Avenue after setting up the woods for your mother's pushcart. How the

00:48:47.570 - 00:49:04.280

only line you heard in Russian as a child was, "Don't hit him." How you were thirteen when you first saw big homes, another part of the city where grass grew, not like Brownsville, Harlem, or the Lower East Side, where you grew up in tenements,

00:49:04.400 - 00:49:21.890

and laundries. How you went to the same doctor from the clinic that saved you twenty years before because you had a rash, and he told you "to get married." How your father told you that those send to Siberia saved themselves by sucking on

00:49:21.890 - 00:49:39.830

raw onions. How you cared for your father for so long and finally had to have your own life. How during the Depression, you were chosen from hundreds to work in Jersey as a cutter, how it doesn't matter how much your job pays, as long as it's

00:49:39.830 - 00:49:56.210

steady. How important it is to have a pension. How we can always talk with God. How everyone turned their backs on the Jews in 1938. I am an impression stamped from you. I am the daughter and the

00:49:56.210 - 00:50:22.500

son, the oldest and the youngest, the fulfillment of your future, the failure of your wishes. Who could have expected this wildcard? You did your best to be kind. Morton Marcus: That's a great eulogy for your dad. What would

00:50:22.500 - 00:50:41.670

you like to read now? Abby Bogomolny: Well, I will end with a poem, a short poem, of love since the whole point of words is to express all the love they can convey.

00:50:44.670 - 00:51:09.400

LIKE A RED TAIL, and this is again from, "People Who Do Not Exist." I circle the rim like a red tail, circle the smoldering canyon, baking in the heat below. I scope out your canyon,

00:51:09.880 - 00:51:30.730

clearing the ridge and view your landscape, a shifting of your desire, steaming, brown, dusty, and ride the hot wind high to see leagues of tawny, earthen limbs stretched out like country, falling wide and free... for miles.

00:51:33.480 - 00:51:51.210

Morton Marcus: And that has been for this past hour a poetry reading and discussion with Abby Bogomolny, who I will remind you is reading with Frances Payne Adler on March 10th at the Bookshop Santa Cruz at 8pm. That is on Tuesday, March 10th, as

00:51:51.210 - 00:52:09.900

part of the National Writers Union's ongoing series of readings. I also want to remind you of Celebration of the Muse 16th Anniversary reading is coming Saturday, March 7th at 7:30pm at the Santa Cruz Civic Auditorium. And this coming

00:52:09.900 - 00:52:29.640

Tuesday, just two days away, yours truly and Norman Locks will be reading and speaking at the Natural History- for the Natural History Museum of Santa Cruz at Louden Nelson at seven o'clock. I'll be talking about the power of nature in my work

00:52:29.910 - 00:52:42.630

and reading nature poems, including from the "Santa Cruz Mountain Poems," and Norman Locks will be showing his marvelous nature photographs. Paul, I want to thank you again for doing a marvelous job as announcer, and this is Mort

00:52:42.630 - 00:52:44.880

Marcus saying I'll see you in several weeks.