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Unknown: It seems to me what you're trying to what I read into, what it seems to me you're trying to do the music is not just playing music, but also agitate and educate and synthesize.

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Strikes me as a kind of musical version of Burt Brahms, Mike, that would be correct inference. Well, I'm not a correct fan because, like, I don't know that

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much about what he does, but people keep saying that, so maybe it's true. Penny opera, like half of one time couldn't see the arrest. I don't mean that necessarily you were copying him, because it seems to

00:00:39.080 - 00:00:52.480

me that his idea was you could use art to galvanize people into some kind of action. Oh, we can. I think we can definitely galvanize people into some kind of an action. We galvanize somebody into Louie

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Louie tonight, who was asleep from zero to Louie Louie in 10 seconds. It's not bad, because we can generate that sort of wave. I hope that once we get on a footing where we can

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reach more people, at once more mass media exposure, then we'll be able to get more of that happening, some of the stuff we get for fan now, although it's not huge in quantity, what those letters are saying. No other group in the world is getting we

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get fantastic letters from Hans so they're 13 years old. Help me in my town? Is that the people you want to appeal to, or is that what you want people to do, then, to destroy the system? No, not exactly destroy it. I want to modify it to the point where

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it works properly. A lot of people think that a new political movement. The ideal new political movement is to bust it all up and start all over again with tribes and feathers in your hair and everybody loves everybody else.

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That sucks, because it's a lie. Those kids don't love each other. They're in that because it's like another club. It's like the modern day equivalent of a street game. It's, it's clean patch goes little Harrier, perhaps, but it's, it's not

00:02:13.860 - 00:02:36.260

right. First of all, the idea of busting it all down and starting all over again is stupid. The best way to do what I would like to see happen working towards is using the system against itself to purge itself so that it can really work. I think politics is

00:02:36.260 - 00:02:51.220

a valid concept, but it's what we have today is not really politics. It's the equivalent of the high school election. It's a popularity contest with it's all. It's got nothing to do with politics. What is this mass

00:02:51.220 - 00:03:06.900

merchandise? Well, then you're looking for something your kind of politics, or something the Greek that raises real alternatives like, say, thorough revamping of American foreign policy, because, like doing away with the American empire,

00:03:06.900 - 00:03:17.100

something like that, really discussing the issues that exist, and not simply running two television candidates. How do you envision the link up between what you're doing now and generating

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that kind of a movement? First of all, I would like to manufacture a thing called the interested party, taking steps in that direction, which would be a third party, which lives up to its name,

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then I would be second party, really, actually, the people that would be active in such adventure would have to be the ones in every small town. There's a little guy that lives

00:03:49.460 - 00:04:06.960

there that knows what's happening. Everybody thinks he's a creep who's right, and they're all over. And we have a way of reaching these people, because they come to us, they find us because they say, maybe there's a chance. So suppose we don't

00:04:06.960 - 00:04:20.460

sell 10 million albums. We've reached most of those kids in those towns, and a lot of them have written to us, and the other ones have like heard and at least been made aware that somebody is thinking in the direction that they're thinking.

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I think what we do is really constructive, although a lot of people are repelled superficially by the sound of it, the way we look, and some of the good test action on stage. But that's all therapeutic shock waves.

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Sometimes, when you insult the audience like you're probably wondering why in here, in the notes and the things that you said when you close the whiskey, go, go. This is all part of the thing, of singing them into action, trying to arouse them

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and make them angry instead of apathetic. Yeah, I think that even, like, it's easier to make somebody mad than is to make somebody love. It's, you know, it's easier to evocate and. Means how hate is the absolute negative of love,

00:05:03.540 - 00:05:15.600

and things, you know, polarization, if you can evoke hate and it's really there, you can polarize it, and then you really could have love. Don't you think that this emphasis in love that we see in

00:05:15.960 - 00:05:26.660

hippies really reflects not so much their ability to love at the moment, but their desire to create a kind of society where it would be possible. No, I think that what they do is a definite indication of their

00:05:26.660 - 00:05:38.540

inability to love, because the whole hippie scene is wishful thinking. Yeah, well, I mean, it's wishful thinking, but they wish they could love, but they're full of shit, and they're kidding themselves into saying, I love, I love. And the

00:05:38.540 - 00:05:50.980

more times they say it, the more times they think they love but like it doesn't work, and most of them don't have the guts to admit to themselves that it's a lot. Do you think that this is because this is an early phase of the thing, or do you see, oh,

00:05:51.520 - 00:06:01.440

yeah, I see it growing into something that really works. I'm glad that the kids are pretending they're dropping out, because when they find out that that doesn't work, they'll be ready for some sort of action,

00:06:02.820 - 00:06:13.440

revolutionary action? Sure, I think a revolution, not the sloppy kind, but the kind that really works is, you know, it's about time for that. You want to distinguish between the sloppy kind, sloppy kindness, you know,

00:06:13.440 - 00:06:31.520

blood in the street and all that today. Revolution can be accomplished by means of mass media, with technical advances that Madison Avenue is using to sell you washing machines and loaf of bread and everything else can be used to change the

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whole country around painlessly, awesome, because all those facilities are available and facilities that the people are Using now Madison Avenue, there are techniques above and beyond that which they aren't aware of, and which I think that I've come

00:06:46.960 - 00:06:59.980

on to, things that they're they're not ready to believe exist yet, because they, you know, they have a tendency to get into a formula, like they get into their bag with their motivational researchers with their degrees who have only

00:06:59.980 - 00:07:17.160

scratched the surface of what the youth movement is about. They don't know youth from shit, and that's, that's the market. You know, they're still selling products to the youth on a glandular level. And there are ways to move the youth to action

00:07:18.240 - 00:07:32.720

through their brains and not through their glands. I mean, you'll have to start off part of the thing on a glandular level just to get their interest. Yeah, but it's, but we're not nearly as glandular as most of the rock and roll bands,

00:07:32.720 - 00:07:43.960

because, you know, we're not selling sex that. Well, you tell people too much, Weldon, you may not, yeah, you challenge there, but we've got enough so they don't lose interest in us

00:07:43.960 - 00:07:58.300

completely. If we were just, you know, if we tried to just be straight up there and sing our songs and do our shit and go away, we wouldn't make it, because we're old men compared to rock and roll standards, and there's no real sex appeal to an

00:07:58.300 - 00:08:12.840

old man singing a straight song up there. So, like, if we do something that makes us bizarre, we can still keep we've got that happening. The thing that occurs to me at this point is that we know the

00:08:12.840 - 00:08:26.060

powers that be in this country are pretty much opposed to people revolutionizing their society. Witness the way Johnson deals with Vietnam when Vietnamese trying to do that, do you think that those same powers would be any more lenient with

00:08:26.060 - 00:08:36.860

you? But look like you were going to take everything they had away. Well, first of all, it will never look, look to them like I'm going to take everything away from because I'm not taking it all away from. I have no intention of taking it

00:08:36.860 - 00:08:47.440

all away from. Well, taking their power, I didn't mean necessarily taking their personal possession, but their power right now is the power to command what the man on the street thinks through the control the mass media and so

00:08:47.440 - 00:08:59.620

on. Well, that's where I have one basic human drive on my side. But they can't defeat greed. See, they're so fucking greedy. And the powers that be are not necessarily the government that

00:08:59.620 - 00:09:13.620

you're talking about big interest. Yeah, I'm talking about the corporation and the military and all that. That's all greed motivated activity, and industry wants to make money. And I'm getting into a phase now where I'm being used

00:09:13.620 - 00:09:29.120

by industry to move product. And a lot of the industries are aware of the fact that they're caught in a vicious cycle it in order to sell their goods to a youth market, which accounts for the major market of most American products, that same

00:09:29.120 - 00:09:47.020

market that buys most of the records, you have a weird situation where, in effect, record companies, especially, are helping to disseminate the Information, which will cause the kids to wake up and move and eventually destroy what they

00:09:47.020 - 00:10:02.700

stand for, and they can't help it. Ralph Nelson tells me, in a tape that he made and sent to me, that this was happening by the kids in the Hans in particular. Simply turning their back on corporate society and going and

00:10:02.700 - 00:10:18.120

creating a parallel society in their own that doesn't work. Yeah, parallel society sucks. They can't survive. You know, that's like saying we're going to secede from the Union. We'll have our town secede from the Union. That's stupid. And I have

00:10:18.120 - 00:10:33.400

not found Ralph Gleason to be all that. It. You know, in a sense, I agree with you, but it also seems to me there's certain element of wishful thinking in what you propose to because it does, you know, my widget,

00:10:33.400 - 00:10:46.180

Marcus bag, doesn't seem to me that the power leader than one class when you get to that point where it looks as though you are somehow going to emancipate the population from taking orders from them.

00:10:46.180 - 00:10:56.020

This is not going to let you have it that easily. That's all question of the way you perceive. What I'm trying to do, I'm not trying to take power. No,

00:10:56.020 - 00:11:06.540

not what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's trying to take power, but you are trying to originally brought up the question of power. Now, power is a thing that bears on this case, but what we're really talking about

00:11:06.540 - 00:11:20.780

is modifying the system just so it works like the present. Principles there that of democracy that were originally set up, you know, when they invented it, aren't being applied today. I think that with an educated population,

00:11:20.780 - 00:11:37.760

democracy works, so what we need is things that would change the shape of education. Miss Harrison, what? So we're talking about the power. I didn't mean that you

00:11:37.760 - 00:11:49.240

personally wanted to take power, but I did think that you meant that you wanted to undermine the power of those people. Rather than that, it's power to control people's minds. It's like this, a person likes

00:11:49.240 - 00:12:04.980

to feel useful in the society. You know, people have certain things that they can do. I happen to have a knack for doing that sort of thing, and if I can apply it to good use, no, it gives me satisfaction just to know that I'm functioning where

00:12:04.980 - 00:12:21.020

normally, you know, I wouldn't have a chance to use my trade. Because what I can do is spread out over a broad range of activities, and I like to do them all because it feels good to do that. If I can help at this anytime, that's groovy. If

00:12:21.020 - 00:12:28.940

it works, fine. If it doesn't work, at least I kept myself occupied for a while. So in other words, this isn't a rigid prescription that you're trying to enforce

00:12:28.940 - 00:12:42.160

on people. It was like that I'd be wearing an arm band, and you'd be out there with a costume on the robe, and doing it with some showmanship. We've taken our time about presenting our case, and

00:12:45.520 - 00:13:04.380

the scene itself has been developing at a rate it seems like developing slower, like I'm not in a position where I can govern the growth rate. No, isn't a class question of feedback from your audience.

00:13:04.380 - 00:13:26.900

It isn't. It is yes and no. Like we we keep track of what's going on out there, but what they do and what they say doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on what we're going to do for them, except that when I try and forecast certain socio political

00:13:26.960 - 00:13:43.540

events, we have some material that's going into the next album. It's about the concentration. There's all kinds of ad lib on there, isn't it? They've been scratched into there's a little plastic Congress in a country,

00:13:43.540 - 00:13:57.460

there's a nation you can buy. Oh, there's by stereo headphones. And then somebody says you can eat it too, right? Oh, I'll take two. Next line, you say, See you later, right? Is that what

00:13:57.460 - 00:14:14.760

happens? There's a dog. Buy. There's a doll that looks like mommy. Don't you say something, solve. Don't cry babies, something. There's $1

00:14:15.240 - 00:14:34.040

like daddy. Man, yeah, right, anything. So I can take it home. We'll see the record. Concentration. You're seeing this before the world even knows

00:14:34.040 - 00:14:46.960

what the tune is, because some of the tunes haven't been these are going on the album The mothers and Lenny Bruce, which is due for September release. Well, how does that go? I mean, is there going to be real Lenny

00:14:46.960 - 00:14:59.920

Bruce on there? Yeah, I'm editing the tapes of Lenny's performances in interspersing these special tunes. So we come up with, like, an oratorio thing in the name of the album.

00:15:02.590 - 00:15:15.370

Yeah, I suspected you know that you and I had a lot in common, and one of the things that probably we know was being turned on by running Bruce, besides growing up in Los Angeles, putting twin pipes on our car, re primering the right

00:15:15.370 - 00:15:28.160

front fender and going to driving, I wonder if anybody else understands all of that, even when you said Charles, I mean, like when I heard that, I just rolled for hours. Then this will kill you. This will kill

00:15:28.160 - 00:16:06.760

you. Well, I believe this. Oh, wow, incredible. Know when that was made? That's eight years old. Yeah, I hope you

00:16:06.760 - 00:16:24.500

didn't carry this around with you, selling him in Baltimore now for 75 cents a piece in May Company or some department store. I have a whole line of those things. Is just a product of the Pachuca and Lenny Bruce coffee. That's the

00:16:24.500 - 00:16:34.340

whole thing that the whole album is Southern California. I mean, like, where's nobody else worried about swimming schools. Nobody else knows what a swimming pool is. That's beautiful, by the way.

00:16:36.020 - 00:16:48.820

In my history classes, when we get around the subject of America, a free country, I always tell my class that, you know, like David Johnson could say that all opponents of the war were traitors and could be arrested, and that they wouldn't

00:16:48.820 - 00:16:56.500

do anything on one day, and the next day, you'd have them all shot, and they still wouldn't do anything. And nobody ever contradicts me. And that's the way it really is in between La New York,

00:16:57.460 - 00:17:22.700

Stroud wasteland was built. Wow. It's not really physical, wow. Now this is the new type of lyric that I'm getting into. These are all social, political things here. Yeah, it's a

00:17:22.700 - 00:17:43.300

straight, bizarre lyric based on behavior tape research tapes of behavior of some 17 year old kids in Ontario, California. This is based on those tapes. You mean, like they said this. I mean, this is what they did. The actual story is one kid saves

00:17:43.300 - 00:17:59.620

his boogers on the window and grows things in jars of piss that he saves in the shed. Still got the tape right. So anyway, these two songs allude to this brother act from Ontario. Yeah, not by Pomona. Do.

00:18:00.060 - 00:18:19.200

A father to Nazi in Congress today. You like Nazi too. I see tape is going to understand all these repeated Oh, wow, but that's okay. We'll just edit them out, or maybe you could read the

00:18:19.200 - 00:18:41.020

things live on to I was thinking about that later. Now, you've totally blown my mind. They're all the tune to that one that's and this one. Yeah, they're all nice.

00:18:41.020 - 00:18:55.300

So nice, yeah, that's the whole breath. That's that breath in thing again, about you put this nice people, yeah? Then when they try and figure out the time, you know, how the words go, they're saying it to themselves.

00:18:58.240 - 00:19:14.400

Oh, impressive. I will say one thing, you know, that you have a monumental talent for making things to stay in line like you know, as I said, I keep going around. I do all your bits. It's terribly

00:19:14.400 - 00:19:27.260

embarrassing. I do them in your call any vegetable, you know, I walk on people understand you you tell them to call any vegetable you think they're crazy. Do you understand the words in the end of that song? No, that's when it goes into

00:19:27.260 - 00:19:41.300

everybody talking at once, right? And, you know, that's where it says. A lot of people don't bother about their friends in the vegetable kingdom, yeah, I've got that, right? They say something. Well, what can I say? What kind of person like myself?

00:19:42.800 - 00:19:57.820

That? Looks fantastic on paper, and it was actually written as part of the song you'll begin moving with your Oh yeah, just call a vegetable. Ask

00:19:57.820 - 00:20:10.260

what they think of muffins. Tom. Kees, paper, caldonian mahogany elbows, green things. I heard you and your buddies, you and your green, yellow little buddies and

00:20:10.260 - 00:20:28.880

green and yellow buddies grooving together the pumpkin, breathing hard, and soon a new rapport you and your new little green and yellow buddies, grooving together, oh no, maintaining your coolness together, worshiping together as

00:20:28.880 - 00:20:49.600

a church of your choice, only in America. How long you've been carrying this stuff around in your head? Holy vegetable was written like two weeks after we finished, freak out and we're in Hawaii, took a year, like Suzy

00:20:49.600 - 00:21:09.540

cream cheese took a year. So I mean Suzy on Suzy cream cheese. Can you tell why? Because the drum rift time, four bars of 441, bar 881, bar of nine, eight, okay. And then it goes,

00:21:09.780 - 00:21:23.780

88988898898, then it goes, 88485868, and then back into four, four, again. We get it together now we just toss it off and it comes up slow. Are

00:21:24.800 - 00:21:35.180

there a lot of splices on absolutely free? I thought I detected places where there were very abrupt changes and it hadn't been like you pause and change tempo on the back of it, you splice one part into another. Am I wrong about that?

00:21:35.180 - 00:21:57.100

Was a lot of editing. Like, since that time, we've adjusted our plane so you can sound like we had. We've been edited. Yeah, no pause. And mostly when I've heard jazz groups change tempos, eg, not say your job, they always do pause and make it

00:21:57.100 - 00:22:13.200

quite apparent that the tempos, yeah, this silly, right? Why the lyrics? No, why are they? Why? Since you knew they weren't intelligent, well, let me put let me back up. I've heard rumors. I know

00:22:13.200 - 00:22:22.760

rumors. There were some censorship problem making this album. Yes, there were. And I wonder if that's if you deliberately made the lyrics unintelligible. No, the censorship problem was not

00:22:24.620 - 00:22:36.380

in the lyrics on the record. I wanted to print the lamb. That was my next question. Why difference between what's on the record and what's on paper? In other words, you can say yeah, you can know, and that's part of

00:22:36.380 - 00:22:53.140

a work of art, but the language to an album are not court. You can't defend that in court as a work of art, MGM legal department. And you know what use? This is the one that will really kill you. See that copy that's got the MGM censorship

00:22:53.140 - 00:23:07.980

marks on it? Look what they censored out of it, the word 13. She's only 13, and you know what? They took out the word 13, not nasty, yeah, only 12. Yeah.

00:23:07.980 - 00:23:23.840

They wanted to say that she was, oh, look, magnificent instrumental ejaculation. Number one, they had to cross it out and change it to climax. Oh, wow. They want to change. Oh, I like to make her do a nasty on the White House lawn. They want

00:23:23.840 - 00:23:53.860

to change it to white house to make her do the crossword puzzle on the back of TV Guide. Read it. Well you want to know something else. The president of MGM, president of MGM, says, Now we know you and I both know that

00:23:54.400 - 00:24:08.580

you want to make her do a nasty on the White House lawn. Can only mean one thing. You want to know shit on the White House. Oh, wow, that's what he said. Now, look, there's some things. Is, you know, bad taste. He's one of these guys,

00:24:10.500 - 00:24:23.300

of course, is perfectly a good taste, yeah, but like the way these guys think. And also, she's only 13, and I hear she gets loaded. He says, we might run into trouble drink. The

00:24:26.780 - 00:24:38.780

legal drinking age is 18. I suppose they said that, if you said she can get loaded. But like this is the same guy who paid $35,000 for the masters the three Lenny Bruce albums. In other words,

00:24:38.780 - 00:24:53.620

this guy that owns the tapes got 35 grand and a deal saying that they can't be censored. What a contradiction. It's dynamite. He's dead. Well, he's a nice guy, but,

00:24:54.640 - 00:25:07.260

well, that one incident at MGM almost caused the parting of A. Ways we were going to quit the company over that. So finally, we wound up with a very good deal in exchange for taking the Linley notes off.

00:25:07.860 - 00:25:20.340

Well, I reviewed the record. I reviewed it without libretto. And I admit I was very uptight about not having libretto at hand. And I kind of thought this was some kind of publicity or money making gimmick on your part. I see now that I'm going

00:25:20.340 - 00:25:30.620

to have to do an answer to my own review and lay out that was one of the things that really disturbed me, was that I had that deadline and I couldn't check it out before I did it. Well, I don't know whether it's this way or that way, but if

00:25:30.620 - 00:25:44.140

this is a money raising scheme, and then there's a contradiction between putting down, you know, buy, buy, buys, as you've done all over the collagen, I apologize when I say it, don't take it seriously,

00:25:44.920 - 00:25:54.580

because the whole logic behind that is, the only way you can teach an American is by example, because they've gone past the point where they believe what you tell they don't believe it. In fact, I gave up teaching

00:25:54.580 - 00:26:04.560

in my classes, and I just designed book reports because I said, you know, you asshole aren't believing what I've gone and researched myself. So you go researching, yeah, well, that's the way it is. They have to get it from a different

00:26:04.560 - 00:26:20.960

source. You have to be shown by example. So in other words, the American advertising system, which is one of the main evils of contemporary society anyway, the whole idea of making people want to buy things that they don't need is like morally

00:26:20.960 - 00:26:35.960

wrong. The only way make them know is to do it. Really overdo it, buy, sell, cram, until they finally say, What the fuck is this? Now, the way the libretto is going to be handled is it's going to be reprinted in Evergreen, I believe. Oh, wow.

00:26:35.960 - 00:26:55.720

They're just trying to set up that deal, either evergreen or rampart or something, carry the whole Linley notes, and then there, it's also available in booklet form. It seems to me, you know, very coincidental that the Beatrice

00:26:55.720 - 00:27:09.240

new record came out the same time this did. There, I find much the same thing, Beatrice seem to be putting down the idea that you have to be enslaved to commodities. And you have that, you know, when you're 64 years old, all you have is, you know,

00:27:09.240 - 00:27:21.020

two weeks somewhere in the aisle, or whatever it is. And I think it's probably more subjective than that. Sounds to me like what's been happening. We're 64 by our shit. Well, maybe you can read it. Okay. I didn't read that

00:27:22.520 - 00:27:33.080

particular juxtapose humorous treatment of what happens when the rock and roller gets old. I juxtapose that with the George Harrison thing in front of it, which was talking about, you know, like we could change the

00:27:33.080 - 00:27:42.520

world with our love. Still seem to me that on the one hand, they're saying, Well, look here, you can go off and be free if you want. On the other hand, you can slave yourself to buy, buy, buy, buy.

00:27:43.180 - 00:27:55.960

Well, I believe in what George Harrison says, I think that you can't change the world if you really got it. Yeah, if you can, if you really care, you can do it. Can you love a native society that only teaches hate? Why not?

00:27:55.960 - 00:28:10.140

Just to be just to be contrary. You can do it. You really want to be revel honestly, try and love something. And if you really want to be gross about it, try and love the society that should pretty hard thing. Try and love it enough to do

00:28:10.140 - 00:28:23.660

something about it. If you can get enough zealots out there that believe in that sort of activity, you can't stop them, no matter what the fuck they look like and where they live, because those are the kind of people that move mountains. You

00:28:23.660 - 00:28:36.260

can't do anything about it. Let's put in a note here to Pauline, when she edits this thing for the magazine, not to take word fuck out and the word shit out and so forth. That seems to be contrary to the

00:28:36.260 - 00:28:52.840

spirit of the interview. Oh yeah. Well, this is the thing. I mean, like jazz magazines in general, agree. This is metamorphosing out of a jazz and music magazine are very hung up on status. One of the things that separates a high status

00:28:52.840 - 00:29:07.140

magazine from low status magazine and thinking of certain people is that low status magazine like, Fuck yeah. Yeah, no, you'll put it the Guardians printed well, like, if they substitute any words for it, yeah, well,

00:29:07.440 - 00:29:30.920

substitute doo, doo for shit, yeah, poor fuck and for fuck. We'll have punchy, punchy, yeah, Mother Fowler? Yeah. You know, motherfucker was the only word you couldn't use in the books they mother Fowler

00:29:38.900 - 00:29:48.280

doesn't nasty on the White House. Walks around on his bare feet. Here she is, laying her back with this mountain on her chest. Get that? Pauline,

00:29:49.420 - 00:30:09.100

yeah. Are we about to be let's see if I can get it together again to go, yeah. Then I'm curious to I mean, it's quite clear that California has become the fill

00:30:09.100 - 00:30:25.880

in the blank, and we've been going through this big Santa caggal about what you call this new music. You accept rock as a working solid, yeah, because that's what I call living wrong. Living wrong California is clearly the new center of it. I

00:30:25.880 - 00:30:43.840

wonder how you relate the mothers to some of the Northern California groups like the airplane, the Grateful Dead love, and how you see your love. I brought that in because the name of the group, how you see the relationship between you and

00:30:43.840 - 00:30:57.100

your audience and the relationship between them and their audience? The whole San Francisco scene is promoting the relationship of love, relationship between the audience, right? The group is

00:30:57.100 - 00:31:11.100

supposed to love the audience to death. Think this exists in practice. No, have you seen this first down? Sure. Because, like, I find it equally as non existent as well. When you go to

00:31:11.100 - 00:31:28.640

the Avalon ballroom, they pass out feathers and bells. Okay, that's That's it. Man, that's funny. That's like, if we're to pass up Molotov cocktails in the lobby to be just as funny, too authoritarian to organize to

00:31:29.420 - 00:31:48.100

Charles because it's like a club, Kees club. What do you think is a relationship between, say, the airplane and it's following, and then if it isn't, you think it's just that, as you put it earlier, you know, street gangs

00:31:48.100 - 00:32:03.120

with that fight, I can't really evaluate other bands followings because I don't know that much about the inner workings of their promotion. And all I can say is I people that like the jokes and everybody

00:32:03.120 - 00:32:12.960

like them, and people who like the Grateful Dead, they like them. People have different tastes. How about the relationship between the mothers and their own? You little bit

00:32:13.020 - 00:32:26.600

different, because we our initial appeal that is to the outcast, the weirdo. Weirdos, especially the LA weirdos. The whole thing is steeped in LA.

00:32:26.840 - 00:32:42.020

Yeah, we're definitely a product of our environment. That whole band grew up. That's why I immediately flipped. Because honestly, how people can even walk us into the San Francisco bullshit? Because it doesn't sound like San Francisco music

00:32:42.020 - 00:32:59.020

community, no matter. Community, no matter how objective. Anyway, yeah, even your audience, the people that that we hear about that, like us, like I show you some of the fan letters. They're just unique, man, these are really the cream of the of the

00:32:59.260 - 00:33:10.260

weirdos of each town, and they're coming from all over, getting letters from very strange places. Are they mostly? Do they think in political terms? Or what some of them do? Some of them think just in terms of

00:33:10.260 - 00:33:24.020

like, I feel funny because people think I'm strange and say that you like me, please, Mothers of Invention, so that I'll keep on being strange and I'll stay alive in my small town. What do you do with those letters? We haven't answered any

00:33:24.020 - 00:33:38.120

of them yet. That's why we have the two typewriters we're now setting up our correspondence. We got a total of about 300 fan letters for last year. You take this pretty seriously, sure those are live people out there, not like you know, if you can

00:33:38.120 - 00:33:56.860

think of it as somebody who paid $4 for an album that you send them a album. But I'll show you the material we've been preparing for. We could have sent you a cheesy form letter all purple and

00:33:56.860 - 00:34:06.240

mimeograph, something would probably say, quote The mother's invention. Want to thank you blah blah for writing for Timothy Lew. They love their fans who are so loyal and thoughtful, blah And blah. They're so busy, busy, busy,

00:34:06.240 - 00:34:15.960

busy, that would be virtually impossible for them to even begin to attempt to consider, Wow, check the splits, the possibility of any sort of warm, personal reply. Blah, blah, blah, blah, we

00:34:17.520 - 00:34:27.620

could have sent you that sort of cheesy letter instead that we've sent you this cheesy letter, the text of which reads, dearest, wonderful and perceptive person. Colon mothers mentioned want to thank you blah, blah, for writing such a mystic letter,

00:34:27.620 - 00:34:38.300

something you have written to us on toilet paper. How wonderfully original. Golly gee. We are so awful busy being thrown out of restaurants and hotels in Montreal, ignored by taxis in New York. Have you had that problem by catching Cabrillo,

00:34:38.960 - 00:34:52.960

they won't pick you up with a beard, especially with these taxis New York, mugged by, yeah, yeah, getting so you don't even have to be black to not be picked up on taxi tech that's Weldon ended up mugged by police

00:34:52.960 - 00:35:04.080

in Los Angeles and scrutinized by the sentences of all major US media. Weldon to take so much time as you all like, frankly, hardly have any time to answer. For you in a warm, personal way. So colon, if you are worried girl and you wrote to us because

00:35:04.080 - 00:35:13.620

we turn you on, you want our bodies in or think we are cute, here is your own personal section of the letter. The answer to any and all questions is yes, we love you, even if you are fat with pimple, if you are or considering the possibility

00:35:13.620 - 00:35:23.960

of becoming a boy and you think you are very happy and swinging the rodeo to us on a piece of toilet paper, the sections for you, keep up the good work. We would like to encourage you to become even more nihilistic and destructive. Atta boy, don't

00:35:23.960 - 00:35:35.180

take any gas from your metal shop teacher, or that creep with a flat out in physical education wants to bust your head because you are different. Quote, close. Quote, period, give them all the finger, just like we would give you the finger for writing to us

00:35:35.180 - 00:35:46.780

on a piece, on a piece toilet paper, solid in letter, no, it's not two more sections. Okay, that's the initial reply to a fan letter, which has to be modified because I understand that there are

00:35:46.780 - 00:35:57.460

legal complications of saying anything sexual. There are legal, legal complications everything. Then follows, would you be interested in joining? Let's call it a fan club for the mothers. Official name of the organization is

00:35:57.460 - 00:36:08.460

united mutations. We call that because we are certain that only a few special people might be interested in active participation. It will cost you $3 you must go and be a company questionnaire, name, age, sex, height, weight, address, state,

00:36:08.460 - 00:36:19.080

zip. Fathers, name, professional. Mothers, name, professional answer these questions briefly, who is God? ESP, yes, no. Described. Best way to describe my social environment is, by my way, I would change it to how will you

00:36:19.080 - 00:36:29.360

change your social environment? When but he was afraid of what sort of help can the mother give you another sheet of paper describe your favorite dream or nightmare in clinical detail. Send both sheets with $3 to the address above and return. Send

00:36:29.360 - 00:36:41.440

you useful information about the mother. Is a small packet with some other things you might be interested in. Thank you. Your signature in please. This an alternate this is this follow up letter. Follow up letter goes Hello, I

00:36:41.440 - 00:36:50.260

forgot the letters accompanies the package. Thank you for responding to initial proposal. If it's necessary to know a few more things about you, we just don't mind answering another form letter, but our files

00:36:50.260 - 00:37:00.540

require for continued membership. If you're interested in this worthwhile program of let's call it self help, please be advised that our work can be continued only if your memberships can pay three yearly we have periodic reports of your

00:37:00.540 - 00:37:11.520

activities in the context of our program. Be notified by mail for your next membership report. For now, please fill in this form. Return it to us. Read the enclosed material carefully. We're happy you took an interest in us. Answer these questions

00:37:11.520 - 00:37:23.720

briefly. Please enclose a small photo of yourself. Are you on mutation? What can you do to help us people's minds? How many of you control Why not more? How do you control their subjects? Do they know other people know how to avoid problems. You group

00:37:23.720 - 00:37:36.500

think? Is there another operator near you? Who does he? She belong to our association? If no, why not describe your relationship with your parents? How can the mothers assist you? Your signature innate please? Date. Yeah, I take it you're

00:37:36.500 - 00:37:52.970

mostly interested in young people, and particular high school students. Well, they seem the only ones left alive. This was something that, something bothered me, especially about maybe this is a miss estimate on my part. You know, some so much

00:37:52.970 - 00:38:08.280

of your things seem to be directed towards the high school scene. For example, I'm losing status at the high school. And for people who know what the public educational system is and so forth, they're obviously going to be well in sympathy

00:38:08.280 - 00:38:18.780

with you. They won't be convinced because they've already reached themselves, so they don't need any more propagandizing. And the ones who aren't convinced, Welch, they're not going to be convinced by that, because they're not even

00:38:18.780 - 00:38:33.740

going to listen to that twice. So then, who is going to be influenced by losing status? Yeah, and that whole genre of you're probably wondering why I'm here and Mr. America walk on ball. Unfortunately, that's the genre that brought these fan

00:38:33.740 - 00:38:43.000

letters to us. So there are, there all. There are in small towns and so forth, all these people who like really think there's something wrong with them, because that's a rising standard of the high

00:38:43.000 - 00:38:57.640

school. Yeah, the thing about this, from a view, photographically analyze the different types of directions. All the songs, freak out. Album winning. There's a little something in there for everybody. At least one piece of

00:38:57.640 - 00:39:13.380

material is slanted for every type of social orientation within that our consumer group, which happens to be six to 80, because, I mean, we got people that like what we do, from, you know, kids, six years old, screaming on us to play, wow,

00:39:13.380 - 00:39:24.500

he's alley, you know, like, I meet executives doing this and that, and they say, my kids got the record. And while he's Alley is their favorite song, they could get the record in the first place? Well, like they may have an older sister or brother

00:39:24.500 - 00:39:37.400

who got a hold of the things with the house, but the young kids that hear it like, wow, he's out, and their other high school kids are they all try and find something on there that they can identify with. And I've gotten a lot of replies that

00:39:38.600 - 00:39:57.700

kids like the Watts riots, yeah, that's beautiful. The heaviest stuff on it is nobody's penetrated brain police, who are the Brahms police, can't tell you that it's

00:39:57.700 - 00:40:18.000

religious sign, but. The ones who say they like brain flies like it because it's got some screaming. Nobody I've talked to yet has a story on that one. And the ones that like help on a rock, you know, that mumbling part at the end, haven't come to

00:40:18.540 - 00:40:29.720

realize what the musical structure that is up for series because it's got some gag lines. Who plays piano solo. That's the season. That's, if you want to become piano player, go and buy what seems

00:40:35.180 - 00:40:54.090

to me that what you're saying is there are no brain please. And that's, that's where the system is weak. Me to be difficult. No, I understand you're not. That's not your bag. I'll think about that. It

00:40:57.390 - 00:41:05.460

seems to fit in with it can't happen here because it can't happen here if there are no Brahms police, and that is, people still can think what they want to think. I'll give you an insight

00:41:05.460 - 00:41:17.940

in the brain voice. Part of the idea for that was derived from a science fiction story. Was a thing called The Ballad of lost female. No, I haven't read science fiction. Weldon,

00:41:24.900 - 00:41:41.860

okay, that whole album was packaged to be as accessible as possible for the people who wanted to take the time to make it accessible. But list of names in there, if anybody were to research, it

00:41:42.520 - 00:41:53.320

would probably help them a great deal. Melissa, names we have been influenced by. Do not hold it against them. Yeah, and there again, you seem to be very conscious of

00:41:55.420 - 00:42:09.880

packaging. Promoting the mothers were packaged two years before we actually put the band together. I've been doing motivational research in the field, watching successes and failures of other people.

00:42:11.560 - 00:42:24.200

What were you doing before you got the mother together recording studio, and prior to that, I was working for this company. Did you go to college? I heard you talking about UCSC,

00:42:27.620 - 00:42:50.980

Junior College after one semester. Did you Yeah? Okay, I had short hair. You're self educated man, but then everybody's a self educated man, like colleges are just there to hold you back.

00:42:54.520 - 00:43:10.860

College is something. It's almost like college was invented by Madison. Interview, it so certain amount of money on certain products was there helping to sell to you, you will get a piece of paper that says you were educated,

00:43:10.980 - 00:43:24.620

most definitely where that and all you have to do is teach in one time. No one lay it right out. In the long way, nobody is interested in getting an education college. There's somebody interested in getting that might not be true at

00:43:24.620 - 00:43:40.120

Harvard or, you know, maybe like a few freaks around in the big, top notch schools who really want to learn something. But if you go out into the provinces like University of Pittsburgh, okay, the party school, wow. Where do Yeah,

00:43:40.120 - 00:43:52.420

where do you put yourself? If you do put yourself, I could do this categorization thing that, like people still think this way. Want to explore the ramifications of

00:43:53.380 - 00:44:05.400

this in a musical sense. How do you, if you, if you can, like, talk about a spectrum of music that extends to straight rock groups like the Jefferson Airplane and San Francisco rock groups on the one hand, then

00:44:05.400 - 00:44:20.100

jazz groups on the other hand, like, say, Archie's group or John Colt means group. How would you go about describing the mothers a collection of opposites? Our music exists because we jam

00:44:20.100 - 00:44:31.340

things that don't belong together together. In other words, we attempt to do the impossible demonstrate that it can be done. One aspect of what we do, most people have ignored it till now. They take for granted the fact that we go from

00:44:31.400 - 00:44:46.660

one speed in one time signature to another speed and another time signature in a split second, without any buckets, without any planning in advance, because they change tempos and change songs with no forewarning, and most of the

00:44:46.660 - 00:44:59.920

time, like maybe three songs out of the set, I'll tell them what we're going into. That's all that jumping around showmanship. If I jump and hit the floor, that's the first beat of the next bar, and they have.

00:45:00.000 - 00:45:15.660

To figure out what the song is, two notes, yeah, and like we train to put the thing together that way. Of course, we have other signals which indicate certain sound events are supposed to take place, where they rumble,

00:45:17.100 - 00:45:38.810

speed up, and all this. What happened with Nixon? Well, one thing I noticed about the mothers is they're very definitely an improvisatory band. I mean, like they play solos, and they seem very heavily jazz, especially

00:45:38.810 - 00:45:50.170

your Tara fullness. They may be amazing to know that we had to force him to play that in that vein, because when we first had him in the band, he was playing straight out of 1955

00:45:52.210 - 00:46:06.360

Well now it sounds to me like John Coltrane. I mean, like vintage 1962 John Coltrane, especially when some of the new music, some of the new jazz, on the tenor, you listen to that, then take, I mean, besides Cecil, you listen to

00:46:08.160 - 00:46:30.860

Coltrane, except for like one, he's one artist On the mythology album, jazz in transition is a class I've heard about. Yeah, it's unattainable. I've heard about it. My god, that's one of the reasons why we got together.

00:46:30.860 - 00:46:45.880

Because my first talk was about how much control the regular company must be an amazing guy, because he produces all modeling producing Andy Warhol thing too, very,

00:46:51.160 - 00:47:06.300

yeah, I thought I detected the strong Coltrane overtones and the modal thing stretched out. Why do you use this is what probably no why to use the steady two four thing when you or if you're doing six, why do

00:47:06.300 - 00:47:15.480

you the steady backbeat so the people can identify? Have you thought about playing dances at all? Oh yeah. What's happened? Los Angeles, the best place for

00:47:17.400 - 00:47:29.600

us to play the dancer, because the kids dance better there to dance free. Here in town, you know, you get these pigs trying to do the booga Lou it's up to what we do, and their legs get all tangled up.

00:47:29.600 - 00:47:42.380

Ever since I got the last poltern record, it was dancing around the house to it, and it's out of tempo. I mean, it's not it is there is a tempo. But it's not like talking to me that people say one of the reasons jazz is losing an audience is

00:47:42.680 - 00:47:52.960

because is because can't dance too. But that's nonsense. You can dance with. You just can't do the Google into it. You can dance anything, any piece of music you hear. In fact, you can dance even if you don't hear music, but, but that's part of

00:47:52.960 - 00:48:11.580

the thing about having shown shoes. So then to go back to that question, I guess you see yourself as melding together all these things. Yeah, we want to try and put together theater of a bizarre sort. The spoken word is differentiated from the sun

00:48:11.580 - 00:48:25.940

word in its rhythmic sense, poetry. I'm talking about just normal speech patterns are beautiful in themselves, because the way people talk doesn't make a shit. What they're saying, like, most of the time, what they're saying is really ugly.

00:48:25.940 - 00:48:42.460

But when you but when you like, think about the rhythm the way certain gas station attendants might speak. You know, what they're saying is pretty useless, but if you just listen to the piece of music, right? I like to simulate

00:48:42.460 - 00:48:52.600

things like you're very conscious of that, aren't you? Because I noticed when you say TV, dinner by the pool, onto black, finish school, you say it the way that guy would say it, man, I've heard that guy talk. I don't know what his name is,

00:48:52.600 - 00:49:10.020

black. That's a typical like Southern migrant to Los Angeles, you know, at the age of seven, and now we're going to defense point that got me some Jungian symbol in my brain. Immediately, I've heard that voice before. It's

00:49:10.080 - 00:49:23.720

all around you. Yeah, It rules the world. It rules California. Thinks it rules the world. Oh, love we come up here. With the group as a whole,

00:49:23.720 - 00:49:39.560

but I noticed that they also had saxophonism, and they were trying to combine jazz and conversation. Is that true? Because I heard them first, that just like coincidental, and due to the fact that the record about

00:49:39.560 - 00:49:53.200

a few interesting coincidences that I've noticed that leading me to suspect that we're making more of an impact on the industry than the people in the industry would like to admit I saw I was mailed a picture of Paul McCartney many months ago

00:49:55.120 - 00:50:06.240

with my mustache and my tie with my earphones, conducting. The orchestra, and this is about the time I was preparing an album for Capitola. What do you mean? Your earphones?

00:50:08.220 - 00:50:23.180

I look like me in the studio, and I really shook my pants when I saw I never met them, but it was a bizarre coincidence that that's taking place, and like in conducting the orchestra on their recent album. I don't know how much that was mounted,

00:50:23.180 - 00:50:38.300

because the orchestra is using as do you find if you listen to that album carefully? Do you think that there is any similarity between lovely the ending of lovely read a leader made in certain parts of hell on

00:50:38.300 - 00:50:52.670

the rock the way they're going in the background. There's also a coincidence in the use of Sergeant Pepper's Lou Harrison reprise and the way we do America drinks and America

00:50:52.670 - 00:51:01.860

drinks and goes home. But that was that album released at the time that they were preparing. You know what? Absolutely free. Was recorded last November. Was

00:51:02.040 - 00:51:21.080

recorded before Thanksgiving last before we came to New York. What kept it? Was it the censorship problem? Do you think that they would have had access to that? I know that. Yeah, it's possible, because rumors in the

00:51:21.080 - 00:51:39.080

industry had a tendency to go very fast. And I believe that on the Rolling Stones album Between the Buttons, they've got that camp song, yeah, but we did. We recorded ours before theirs. There was released after ours, before yours. Yeah, there's came

00:51:39.080 - 00:51:54.580

out further. We recorded ours first. Do you have any notion, just to drive that mail Henze from reading hit Tara magazine, I noticed that there are several English groups, like the arbiters and the animal or Eric

00:51:54.580 - 00:52:04.440

burden is going to be very intrigued by what you're doing. You notice? Can you think of any other English groups that have made that have made that explicit, or any other American groups. Let me tell you how far

00:52:04.440 - 00:52:18.840

it's gone with the animals. First of all, knowledge in the industry that the way it was explained to me, and this is not my opinion of what they have done up till now, but it would explain to me that they were the typical non creative rock and

00:52:18.840 - 00:52:32.480

roll group who had made a success performing material that was not necessarily original and which was done by written by any member of the group. They said that Werner said that they have great problems

00:52:32.480 - 00:52:49.060

joining their material. Okay, so arranging some stuff. Not only were they particularly original, but we're one hung up on that R and B bag, which is dead me. You know, when you get little white boys trying to be little black boys can't be like screaming the

00:52:49.120 - 00:52:59.500

blues, yeah? The best thing about the stones was they didn't do that very long, yeah? But when they did, it was funky, yeah? It wasn't necessarily color signing,

00:53:00.100 - 00:53:12.120

British working class punk, yeah, and it was valid for that, except when I tried to do too much. Chuck Berry, yeah. Okay. Now, after Eric went to that party, I

00:53:12.120 - 00:53:27.300

don't know what the fuck happened in his head. I believe he was a little bit psychedelically jacked up that evening, or the two nights that he spent over at my place. It must have been something, because now they're the album

00:53:27.300 - 00:53:42.880

that they recorded about a month or two ago. Oh, really, their new group is psychedelic. One of their songs is seven minutes long. It's a poem about the Black Plague, and it's accompanied by tape recorded sounds of the monastery. I got

00:53:42.880 - 00:53:58.060

another song about San Francisco policeman. They can he said, Wilson said they went into the studio and played Suzy cream cheese note for note. I mean, the one in the freak out played monster mag and note for note. And the other thing, if that's

00:53:58.060 - 00:54:11.340

the kind of stuff they're practicing, if they use that album as point zero from where they start for him, that's dynamite. And if every group in the industry would do that, and I'd love to see him do it, the whole complexion of music would

00:54:11.340 - 00:54:22.880

change in a hurry. And it'd be very gratifying to hear that weirdness on the radio coming from people other than us. Do you have any indication that is catching on throughout the industry?

00:54:22.940 - 00:54:39.500

Well, I noticed that every time we work like another athlete and we get we usually accompany somebody who's a star. Oh, wow, the star group is on and we play the other couple sets. The next time you hear and they're playing something that sounds

00:54:39.500 - 00:54:57.880

like something we do. I noticed that from the first time that Werner blues project to the next time we saw they were doing songs with time changes, but they were stopping in between, so they count them off and started and gotten down to the

00:54:57.880 - 00:55:15.730

point where they bring themselves back to. Up in the air, land on the first Beatrice, the first barn. How about other groups? Now, we just noticed that the experimental things are creeping into their bags. Although in the minds of people

00:55:15.730 - 00:55:30.860

are trying this thing, they say what we do originally? I can't help but feel that we had something to do with motivating them to try something more unusual than they might have if they hadn't heard that we got home or heard that somebody was

00:55:30.860 - 00:55:43.360

doing something weird. When you're writing a song, as most of the groups do, as a cooperative effort, they all get together, you have certain alternatives. What you can do it, putting that song together. At a certain point in their

00:55:43.360 - 00:55:56.980

arranging of a tune, you can decide whether or not the bridge is going to be a simple bridge, or it's going to be a weirdness. And most of the time now, the kids are choosing something that might be unique, a time signature, change, a weird chord

00:55:56.980 - 00:56:15.000

here and there, a suspension, it's happening, and their idea of what music is is broadening. You hear this in the San Francisco groups too. San Francisco still seems to be either hung up on modality, plastic Yardbird imitations or

00:56:15.000 - 00:56:25.520

R, B, I got sold baby, even though I'm Jewish. Where does the Jefferson Airplane have been in the category, well, they started out as being modal city. I like the

00:56:25.760 - 00:56:39.020

stuff. As a matter of fact, they asked me to produce their third album, really, and I couldn't do it, because I couldn't leave the theater to go out there and do it, which means I lost a lot of money. Have you produced many

00:56:39.020 - 00:56:47.860

albums yet for other people? Yeah, I produce singles for other people, and I'm getting ready to produce an album Mort group called the other salvage, which is

00:56:49.240 - 00:56:59.200

very promising. Have you done any singles released by the mothers? What happened to them? Well, how could I be such a fool? Which was released as our first singles on 4000 in Detroit,

00:56:59.920 - 00:57:16.320

Detroit to center of all kinds of we gotta imagine us on the radio selling records in Detroit. What was the B side? B side was, it can't happen here. I mean, I couldn't go too straight. Then came the watch

00:57:16.320 - 00:57:38.240

riot in a scaled down version, with whoever brain police on the other side. Oh, yeah, that's a bitching single. Yeah. I mean, DJ put that thing on the test. Forget it. How about what did that sell? Do anything? Because the

00:57:38.300 - 00:57:58.000

record doesn't sell as it gets on the radio. So then, just hear that on the kqv disc derby. Then the third single was, there's a big dilemma about my big leg, Emma with, why don't you do me right

00:57:58.600 - 00:58:13.620

on the other side that hasn't been put out on, no. I mean, I fortunately. I hope it never is, because it was a straight commercial attempt just going with a piece of absolute shit market that is

00:58:13.620 - 00:58:29.860

based on shit experimental. Yeah, how to work. That's encouraging. You can't merchandise straight shit. Well, we could. I have another way like that was, there's

00:58:29.860 - 00:58:49.300

different categories of straight shit. Yeah, that was straight shit. Judd man deals, I was straight shit. RnB, with a little humor thrown in. Maybe people were offended by the fact that I did take off on wild thing. Now the next single that

00:58:49.300 - 00:59:10.140

we're going to put out is it's beautiful. It's a beautiful song, and it's done with a beautiful arrangement, and it's all and it's got some lyrics that will go directly to the consciousness level of a 13 year old girl, because it's a song

00:59:10.140 - 00:59:23.900

about 13 year old girl who has parents that don't understand her, that gets her rocks off by listening to her favorite singers on the radio and digging a picture on the wall, you Know, and living in a future world that they invent for themselves,

00:59:23.900 - 00:59:39.860

locked away in their bedroom. And it's all it's a song that takes the attitude like we know where you're at. If you need any assistance, just give us a buzz. You know, it's not like we say Capitola Bookcafe saying that we know what you're doing in your

00:59:39.860 - 00:59:53.140

bedroom, which is more than anybody else has said. So far, at least, we came out and said, I think it will be a winner. How long is it? What do you think has caused

00:59:54.100 - 01:00:09.660

backup department? It seems inconceivable that five years, three years, maybe two years ago, that you could have. Put out two albums, like two you put out, there would be any that the record companies would be convinced there was any market

01:00:09.660 - 01:00:24.860

for that kind of material. Do you agree with that assessment? And if you do, what do you think has caused the change? First of all, the market that we reach always existed, but the manner in which we reached that market was carefully planned,

01:00:25.820 - 01:00:44.800

and the way which we were broached to the record company was carefully planned, and we were turned down by every major company. And it's best, because we wound up with Nelson. I think that's a great advantage. He's been responsible. It's been

01:00:44.800 - 01:01:04.920

producing long times. Been responsible for most major weirdnesses Tara Ohta. But whoever did it should get some kind of credit, because I found much of the early and amplified

01:01:07.320 - 01:01:24.080

hurts, it's amateur sophomore can very juvenile, that kind of focus, subterranean, homesick, blue, oh, it was a Monster fucking record. I heard that thing. I was jumping all over the car,

01:01:24.080 - 01:01:36.260

you know, and then when I heard the one after that was like a Rolling Stone. I wanted to quit the music business, because, you know, if this wins and it does what it's supposed to do, I don't need to

01:01:36.260 - 01:01:49.300

do anything. Yeah, do anything. You know, it's sold, but nobody responded to it the way that they should have. They should have listened to that and said, Hey, that record got on the radio. Now wait a minute. We've got a chance to say something.

01:01:49.300 - 01:02:02.220

You know, the radio is for us to use as a weapon. And that didn't happen right away. And I was little disappointed. I figured Welch shit. Maybe it's a little reinforcing. Obviously it does, because people respond to those

01:02:02.220 - 01:02:13.680

things, and yet they, they don't. They can't go beyond just responding emotionally and internally. They can't, like, make them involved somehow, exactly. There's a very poignant thing, I think it's Mary McCarthy writing about Vietnam,

01:02:13.680 - 01:02:25.820

you know, hearing the soldiers over there saying they're all thanking you all. They're all seen blowing in the wind wherever, all the flowers getting ready to go out and kill the goose. So obviously, just

01:02:25.820 - 01:02:44.440

identifying with the message while certainly it's a step forward is not sufficient to listen. What did you do then? Story marine was killed in the village. Remember? Oh, yes, okay. And then there was a rumor that every Marine within

01:02:44.920 - 01:03:00.400

shooting distance was coming down to beat up everybody. They found one here. But we following that rumor. We're rehearsing in theater, and we walked three full dress Marines. Hello there. Want you to sit down. And we just went on a rehearsal. One

01:03:00.640 - 01:03:21.240

we're done. They said, We just bought your album. We really like it. These kids, 19 years old, station on the carrier Wasp with short carrier queen, you know, and Well, I'm glad you do. Hey, listen. How'd you guys like to work with us tonight? What

01:03:21.300 - 01:03:40.540

really turned on. I said, Can you sing? What do you know? Well, I know everybody must get stoned to the House of the Rising Sun. I ate, they drank wine and practice their songs. Come back, we do this number. I said, Now look, it's one whole

01:03:40.540 - 01:03:50.440

thing I want you to do when I give you the signal, I want all three you guys to lunge for the microphone and start screaming kill. So we played like that Archie weirdness with dissonant chords and all that cute

01:03:51.880 - 01:04:07.440

mics start screaming kill. Couldn't handle it. Then it was all over. They clap. So I said to the audience, thank you. And then Ray says to the audience, thank you. And I point to the Marines that them say,

01:04:07.440 - 01:04:18.900

Thank you. The first one walks up to the mic and says, eat the apple, fuck the core. And everybody went, Oh, wow. Second, when he comes up and he says, eat the apple, fuck the core.

01:04:19.200 - 01:04:33.080

Point to the third one. He goes up. He says, hey, you know, I feel the same way as my other two buddies. Eat the apple. Fuck the course, some of us love our mothers more. Full dress blues, man, they just burned a dozen flags court martial course,

01:04:33.080 - 01:04:50.320

Marshall city. All right, so then we took an intermission, and they stuck around. You guys. Know, I don't care, man, I don't want to get your once. All right, go back on. I told bell to go get the dolls. The first time we ever used a doll, we had

01:04:50.320 - 01:05:12.660

this doll somebody gave us was really shitty, big plastic doll, not plastic guys are. Are gonna sing. Everybody must get stoned. Now they're going to we're gonna have basic training, ladies and gentlemen, this is a good baby, and the Marines are gonna

01:05:12.660 - 01:05:28.400

mutilate it before your very eyes, kill it. Toss the tune. They rip their vines off, beat it up, stomped on it. I just, you know, completely fucked it up. And after they're all done, music got real quiet. The lights went down. I held it by the hair

01:05:28.400 - 01:05:47.800

and showed the audience all the damaged parts of the doll's body for 10 minutes. There's one guy in the front row, spade cat, just come back from Vietnam. Was awful. Ended the show there. I guess you did. It was an atrocity. It was the most like,

01:05:47.800 - 01:06:07.320

let me bruisable lamb and play the you know, that thing I want the boys come back. The boys are dead. You've got to get somebody in the audience with a camera from now

01:06:07.320 - 01:06:17.940

on. And the tape recorder was trying to get the tape recorder trouble the photographer this and they were getting good pictures. Yeah, it's pretty hard. Let me point out, is that they don't know

01:06:17.940 - 01:06:29.600

what to shoot, because they they're, you know, that thing should be covered as a documentary? Yeah, definitely, most they want to. I got this great shot on multiple horns. What the fucking you see? You want to see what's going on,

01:06:29.600 - 01:06:46.300

because that's very it's very telling thing that should be covered by like forecast, that one exactly you know, and really covering every aspect. I never know what's going to happen up there with the people from the audience. We've done numbers

01:06:47.620 - 01:07:01.200

spontaneously that could never be duplicated, just things that happen with people out. That's why you have people wander around on stage like me with my camera, as I kind of psych that out otherwise. I mean, I could never

01:07:01.200 - 01:07:12.420

do that. It's a standard performance performance. They don't really notice freaky. And they just figured like you must be doing something. He looks great.

01:07:12.420 - 01:07:25.460

Those people don't give a shit. They think it's part of the show. They think we're paying you to do it, to act it out. I think that they're trying to make some get a photographer out there so they look like they're important these guys before, but

01:07:25.460 - 01:07:45.880

look like a freak show. You say that, you seem to be very, very entranced for that phrase. That was a phase. Also, I had an idea with the commercial value

01:07:45.880 - 01:07:55.660

of Benny rays, which repeated, you know, in that context. In other words, the catch phrase of that album, that's the Suzy Creek. Except for me prove this. I mean,

01:07:56.920 - 01:08:07.320

why? What is, what is, what is, you know, I haven't read this thing yet. What is the meaning of that symbolism, or is there? Is it just nonsense? Are you just trying to like program people,

01:08:11.040 - 01:08:26.780

you know, like, if you try and respond to that, like, try and tune into that and respond to like you would ordinary, that would have the effective, like, if you let that grab you and move you around, jerk you apart when you're trying to tune into

01:08:26.780 - 01:08:44.740

that and flow within a magic go kart. Yeah, several, one of your most dedicated fans on that album was my friend Tom Kenneth Michael, who has been listening to a few stereo headphones. He tunes out for the, you know, for

01:08:44.740 - 01:09:00.300

the invocation to the whatever, the improvisatory part. But he likes the colony vegetable column by name. And I think he's like the prune things too, if he can understand the words I telling,

01:09:03.120 - 01:09:20.540

well, do you think I asked this before? And I think I got a definitely answer that you could have put this sort of thing out five or six years ago, and that we could have five or six years ago, got tapes in there of

01:09:20.540 - 01:09:36.860

the original versions of a lot of these songs were recorded, and we have, since, you know, refurbished and trying to bring them up to date, current rhythmic formats and things like that. Like, there was a time when shovels were popular, but

01:09:37.580 - 01:09:55.000

they're not exactly in vogue. You get rhythm popular rhythms changed, which, again, just means and also the use of parallel clips is coming back, and the use of flatter fifth and a blues guitar line, which was gone for years. All guitar work

01:09:55.000 - 01:10:15.600

heard on top 40 Records was very sterile, white note thing. The third, third, or maybe hit a 16, but Mallea Getting back to that distorted nastiness, you know that that you hear a whole blues record, you do a lot of that on your short

01:10:15.600 - 01:10:31.970

breaks. My whole guitar playing background is not Jack. What is, what is your musical background? But you've listened to everything. You know. You seem to have an encyclopedic

01:10:31.970 - 01:10:44.920

knowledge. I remember what I hate. How did you get? How did you get into music at all? Or rather, how did you in rock bands and

01:10:45.760 - 01:10:57.100

start up playing drums? How come you didn't go directly in the music? Why did you go into the other thing, well, I was married for five years, like I was an age of

01:10:57.100 - 01:11:13.500

Fiverr, but then I got in, like I was more than interfiber, because during the time I was doing that, I was also working in a what you might call tiptoe through the tulips type band, black pants, white hat, loaded shoes like that. Choreography,

01:11:13.500 - 01:11:21.740

play three twist numbers tonight. The rest of this stuff is oh how we're down. You condense that all beautifully into that American

01:11:21.740 - 01:11:33.860

drinks when goes home, yeah? Because that's like a lot of the guys in the group. He did that like I cried when I heard the guy swinging back in front of the microphone

01:11:33.860 - 01:11:46.060

like they do. Oh yeah. I got the cash register, the glasses, the drunken voices, the piano, a shuffle rhythm on the drums the whole thing, one of the things I've been writing about, which one,

01:11:46.060 - 01:11:58.360

is they don't want to play whiskey clubs anymore, and like, the audience doesn't understand it, you know, like we pay those niggers, why don't they want to go and be slaves anymore? You won't play shine my shoes. God damn it.

01:11:58.540 - 01:12:15.180

Yeah, right, exactly. Playing is just another form of playing, those kinds of playing. Well, one thing that I think is really good about our music is that the settings for the lyrics are so carefully designed that

01:12:15.360 - 01:12:32.540

if you suppose you had to listen to that America drinks and goes home for a million times, it would drive you crazy, one thing. But eventually, if you're the average dumb asshole that you know hates music anyway, you might realize how perfect that

01:12:32.540 - 01:12:44.560

setting is, those words, those things are so carefully constructed, yeah, that it breaks my heart when people don't dig into them and see all the levels that ballad, it's like, it's almost like, what is it? Almost

01:12:44.560 - 01:13:01.000

like? It flashes into my mind every time I hear it, like something, something that I hear Harry James playing, or something like that, some band. It's just kind of the prototype of all modern sentimental crap, Tin Pan Lew,

01:13:01.840 - 01:13:19.080

because it was written based on the same subconscious formula that all those pukers use. It's two by one chord progressions modulating all the way around. But not, you know, they modulate normally in a regular song in a circle of fifth. This is goes,

01:13:19.380 - 01:13:36.680

then it changes. Kees, Werner, it is weird. There is something happening in those changes. And the melody is, if you just were to play the melody as a straight thing against it's interesting. Well, those stupid fucking words, and then that setting

01:13:36.680 - 01:13:55.840

with the cashiers and all that, we spent hours. Kirby was playing the cash register. We rehearsed the crowd noises, talk track itself, which is underplayed in there. It's funny because they're saying things like, I got a new Mustang, like

01:13:55.840 - 01:14:12.060

the girls are saying, Sally, will you go with me to the bathroom? It was all beautiful. It was but it's great. It's hysterical, drunk, man. You want to go in

01:14:12.060 - 01:14:21.980

there and kill them all. But that's not all that's happening, because this fucking thing technology is not up to reproducing that one song, I'll

01:14:21.980 - 01:14:35.060

tell you what's in it. You got the song itself, the tune, which is a parody of all the changes. You got the lyrics, which is a parody of all the lyrics. You got the vocal performance of the lyrics, which is a parody of that. You've got the improvised

01:14:35.060 - 01:14:47.920

dialog which is a parody of everybody's closing bullshit. No, that's what. That's the most pathetic thing. You've got the outsetting of the glasses and the cash register, which is right in there. You've got the crowd mumble, which was

01:14:47.920 - 01:15:04.200

carefully programmed like choreographed and on top of that, which you can't even hear, is a fight going on. We had the crowd separated in two rooms in the main studio, 10. People sitting around the microphone doing these lines on cue with

01:15:04.200 - 01:15:20.600

the cash register over here and the glass on one microphone, then in a vocal booth off to the side. We had Ray and Jim and Roy going through this number. We had bunk trying to pick up two girls. You know, what's a girl like you doing a place like

01:15:20.600 - 01:15:37.520

this, all that stuff. And then Jim's an Okie wanting to beat up a Mexican who ran out his good buddies and we're drinking beer together and find out that he's the Indian, accuses the Mexican of going out with his sister, right? Yeah. And they punch it

01:15:37.520 - 01:15:51.760

out. And then, meanwhile, the chicks tell this other guy to fuck off because he's coming on too strong. You know we are, and it's all happening. Whenever you can't listen to it all, you got to have it on 10 track, at least 10, so you can

01:15:51.760 - 01:16:09.660

walk around the room and see where it's all. How much will take you hours to do that, not to say anything. Recording costs on the second album was like, maybe a third of what freak out was freak out $21,000 right? That's a heck of an investment.

01:16:10.860 - 01:16:27.080

That's about for, for two LP, that's about 10 times, about five times. We really had a good budget for that which has not been offered to us since. Because of the time we recorded the second album,

01:16:27.680 - 01:16:40.400

the sales had dipped. How I meant to ask you earlier we talking about your singles. How has it done overall? Do you have any audit on that? Yeah, sure. Very happily, the first album is up to 150 1000

01:16:40.400 - 01:17:00.120

right now, and they project sales of 250,000 for the second album by August we got still sells regularly, between two and 8000 copies a week, every week, in places like Montana, Wyoming, Santa, Florida, Virginia, and all those places. Man, I know

01:17:00.120 - 01:17:08.880

it's one of the top sellers of the local in the record store in the college. Part of it, we'll see it doesn't stop, because it's a kind of a thing where, you know, somebody can hear it at a

01:17:08.880 - 01:17:23.480

party. People can you get turned on with, like, my students turn, you know, they turn down in the Andy Warhol album. I like that. Wilson deserves a lot of credit for recording that album, because it's spoken, it's electric, yeah, I noticed that

01:17:23.480 - 01:17:35.120

about the fifth time through, the way he plays the guitar is very country. Yeah, it's not just that. It's the idea that what they're saying is comes right out of there. And by Oh yeah, folk in the sense of relating to a milieu, right? And

01:17:35.120 - 01:17:50.230

also the idea that love is about 10 times. Oh, yeah, folk in the sense of relating to a milieu, right? And also the idea that love is that kind of a group

01:17:50.230 - 01:18:04.800

too, because what they sing about is the folk music of the LA tree. We sing about as the folk music of our environment, from Pomona to LA, you know, being kicked around and go go bars. You're older too. I think our average age is three. Okay,

01:18:04.860 - 01:18:18.780

so age range is 24 to three. Love is definitely 18 to 24 that I noticed they're one of the few integrated bands on the scene, yeah? Well, that's because Arthur Lee and

01:18:18.780 - 01:18:34.340

Johnny are the only Negro freaks that I met three why? Yeah, sorry to keep you up, but I'm not really left a lot of them.

01:18:43.780 - 01:18:54.040

He already left. Why don't we cut this off here? I'm gonna call him back. Anything. If you have any more questions. Let me get your number. 47712831,

01:19:00.060 - 01:19:11.460

you can take that. 470, 712, 18, oh, yeah, bad shoes. Want to go to my hotel room, baby? Do.