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Unknown: Pete King being interviewed by disc jockey Rick Holmes, later joined by T bone Walker. Minimal compliments like that. I think I'll just going back to Mississippi Listen, but I want you to know

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that it is your interview, and I want to be quiet in a minute, but I just had to get it off my mind. Let you know who you are with me, and I love you. I really appreciate I really love your music, and I want to know, let my audience know where you

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from, and hide it all again, where you going? What's in the back future? Yeah, well, one thing BBQ. I want to keep playing the blues. I want to play it all the way around the world. I want everybody to hear

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it. And I'm hoping that maybe I can bring people together some like it seemed like we're doing now. And I want to bring more, you know, and maybe we can introduce the word love a little bit more, where everybody will at least like everybody. Love

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them, you know, I like to see happiness. I like to see peace. You know, be around people that enjoy being together. This is what I want. But this is the reason why the regeneration gap

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realizes this, because their mind is in this train, and this is what you're doing, and they understand this, and their desires and goals to bring this really

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is the regeneration gap, and I'm just glad that they are able to See and realize what you've done according to the history, taking people, young people, you know, ideas which usually they do have great minds every decade, you might say, and they

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are the ones that bring about change. And of course, it seemed like to me now they're bringing about the change of love, the change of, you know, appreciation, the change of people being, you know, other words, remembering that we all

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are needed, you know, right? It seemed like to me that I might even live to see a lot of this happen. Your life is just we're gonna let them hear it, and don't play a selection or two get back, because selections before we get

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into this. I want to compliment the record Kees, because three years ago they were telling before the beginning, before the interview began. It's so nice to drive down center and see your big, beautiful, black, authentic soul. It makes me know that and

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now appreciating the black artists, artistry, ladies and gentlemen, walkers, sorry about that. We were supposed to be there last night, but they canceled out. It started raining yesterday.

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Are they going to reschedule? You? Think you I hope so. I think they are well, I want you to know, but before we get into the last election, I know you're very busy man, and I really want to

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thank you from the bottom of my heart for finding time to come by and say hello to us, truly the audience. Kbca, will I consider the best radio station? Thank you. It's my pleasure, and we want to say hello, Tebow. Say hello, Tebow.

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How's your soul? Let's go and still going strong. I know you remember back home, T bone steaks and Cotter green, yes, tomatoes and iced tea everything go along with it. Yeah, it's nice to have you here. I know you're very proud to be

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associated northern man of BB scalibert. Well, it's been around I've been around him ever since he started. Yeah, I imagine you influenced him quite a bit, didn't you? I

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hope so. Anyway, yes, you did a whole lot. I can't ever say it in words. I'm still trying to say it every day. That's why I sing the blues. Yo. This is a whole thing. Like, I know T bone has been around people like lightning Hopkins and Johnny Lee

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Hooker. These men have been around for years, and they just just beginning to get that recognition. Yes, I've been around longer. They have already two years.

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Yeah, I know I remember, you know, as a kid, I really do it. I want to really thank you for coming by too. And I want to thank you for influencing BB. Thank you to stimulate millions and millions of people's soul. Thank you

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in the car cots, key influence interviewing BB King then T bone Walker. Many, many many. Did you repeat what you said earlier in the when we came into the bar about stormy Monday? I said that when I

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first heard chief on guitar, single string solos and stormy Monday, it almost drove me crazy. I could never believe. Leave a sound could be that pretty on an instrument. I don't know what

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happened to me. Just like I said, drove me crazy. It was mostly the guitar playing. I like his singing too, but he's always killed me with the

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guitar. Just completely kill me. One of the things we talked about on the way over here is why it's taken so long for blues players in general to get any kind of recognition, and particularly for T bone, because

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he's been doing this for so long, and yet the general public hasn't, well, I think, picked up on it. One thing is a lot of us, when I say us, I'm speaking of people that play guitar. In a lot of cases, people don't ask,

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but they ask, Who do you like, or who influence you? Then I will say, because T bone was one of the number one people that really influenced me, especially on the blues, you see. But before I knew about T bone, I never heard electric guitar

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played. I'm talking about played, played, right? You said you'd heard it handled, but, yeah, I never heard them played. And T bone was the first man I ever

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heard play the blues on electric guitar, and brother it just as they use the word now, it blew my mind. But a lot of us, I think, have been so conscious of trying to make headway ourselves until we don't need to give the other people credit. Let's do

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them. And I think that may be one of the few things. And another thing has been this, the people, in so many cases, have been so hip, they say, or they think they are told, they neglect a lot of the things that are very dear to us, and

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especially blues neglect their heritage, huh? Yes. But I think now people are beginning to find themselves. They begin to remember that I'm me, whether black or white, I'm

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still me, so wherever I go, I cannot be white, or if I'm black, if I'm white, I cannot be black, but I am me. I'm a person, as we sometimes say, I'm a people. I'm part of the people. So what I have, I have what I don't have. Well, this is

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a matter of trying to better myself to where maybe I can get some of the things that are available too. Go ahead. I'm sorry, this in itself. Now the kids are beginning to bring this out, and

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us and the adults, they began to remind the adults that, sure, maybe last year something was something else. Well, okay, if it was something else last year, let's make it better for this year. And that's what they are doing. And this in itself, has

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happened. Happened us, because, like pastors, Mike Bloomfield, Eric Clapton, one of these guys, they say, well, like, we like, BB King, I listen to BB King, well, BB King, listen to T bone Walker and Lonnie Johnson, Brian Lew and I listen to them. You

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see what I mean? So it's been a thing that's been constantly going but a lot of us, over the years have it. Well, we just have it. Let it be known. You know, it seems to me two things that one thing is that the new

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emphasis in colleges on Black Studies, Afro American Studies, is going to change a lot of that. There's going to be more consciousness of things like the blues, and more of an appreciation, and ultimately, it's going to come to the point

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where, in addition to teaching Beethoven and Bach. You also teach T bone Walker and b b king in the colleges. Well, I think like this. I've thought about it long. When I was married, I know my wife was in college. She was going to one

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of the major colleges out here, and I walked, but she was taken music as a minor because, well, she was married to musician, but a blues musician, and all of the music that was taught, they would always refer back to one of The 16th or 18th century. You

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know, European. Yes, I mentioned, yes, the arrangers of that day or that decade, but they never did mention people like I would say in the modern times that I think are equally as great and their own way number one would be a. Duke

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Elton, which was a great, you know, composer, so was Leonard Bernstein. People like that, they would always go back to the other people. And of course, I think that blues, they meant to negro spirituals. Why couldn't they, or why shouldn't they? Why

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won't they rather have or why shouldn't they have blues because it is a part of American music. Why shouldn't it be Tara? Well, is the basic. It is the basic of all jazz that's being played today, or any time the blues is the basic of this. It

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wasn't for blues. It wouldn't have been any jazz. Don't give them the credit, you know, like when I was traveling or says, For 10 years I did 10 years of one night stand, just like Levis doing now. And the young generation now has begun to

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bring it out. I think England, the kids in England are the one that really enjoy the blues, because everyone tries to play it. It's just like BB King and I, we got a fan club, something I've never had, and I've been in show business for it two years.

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Never had a fan club up until now. That was what I was going to ask you, too. It seems to the other question I had, seems to me that Europeans are less backward and less bound by prejudices when it comes to appreciating kinds of

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different kinds of music or different kinds of art. And so I'd want to get your opinion on that, whether you think that the appreciation for blues has come first through Europe, and that has fed back and influenced American audiences.

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Yes, I think that they do appreciate more, but it's it's a change, though, that's happening now in the states that I've noticed, I've noticed that the kids over here now are beginning to fact, the first standing ovation I've ever had was at one

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of the places where I was playing to the kids, and it's been, Believe it or not, more so with the white kids, the black kids are a little slow to acknowledge the blues, but I think I know why, as I mentioned, because they've been

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trying to advance so fast and they didn't want to have anything to do with anything they thought would hold them back. Because used to be a lot of stories told about people of the blues in the blues field,

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low class and undignified and poor house music and so forth and so on. But what they didn't know is that a lot of the other music was played in those same places. That's right, you know? So

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actually, I think now they, as a young people, are beginning to think for themselves some and they are finding out that a lot of those stories that was told, the bad stories about the music, was absolutely untrue. So now they are finding this out for

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themselves, and they began to come back. They began to say, well, like regardless of what the older people said, a lot of the thing, because now I have to clean up for them. To the older people, a lot of them actually believe what they were saying,

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and some of them just didn't want the kids to be associated with it. But the ones that really believed it had been told by some other people the same way, you know, sure, and so they actually had came up with the kids. But now the kids are

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wiser. They're much wiser, and they're they're not believing all these things that people tell them. Other words, if you tell them true and show them that it's true, then they go along. But if it's not true, they say no, and they're

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rebelling against things that they think people are just forcing on them. Sure, yeah, I remember in 1966 or 67 in Pittsburgh, where you were on a build downtown in a theater with a bunch of Motown

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artists. And I noticed that, like, the kids would get up when I go on, they get up and walk out. Yeah, the kids would get up and dance for the Motown artists. And when, when the things that really grew me, but, and not only me, but

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the adults there, black or white, things that grooved us weren't the things that grew them at all. They just like and I, you know, sitting next to a girl was about 14. Finally, I said, you know, what is it? You know, why don't you, why don't

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you respond? She said, I just don't understand this music. It doesn't Well, no, they didn't understand it. And one of the reasons why they didn't didn't understand, or didn't know about. It is

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simply because they hadn't had a chance to really hear it right, Motown and all the other people, or anybody, either even the label that I was on there was always playing the tunes. You understand they was playing the tunes that was popular by young

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people, for young people. This is right. This is one reason why we were never played and, of course, the kids just didn't know about us. That's the way it was. And since they didn't know, they didn't understand. So they would say themselves, what is

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that? Who is it? Where did he come from? Never heard of him, you know. And of course, when it's like that, well, you you don't expect to really get an ovation or anything, sure,

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kids would just walk out. But now, what's beginning to happen? Began to hear about us. They began to know that we're people like everybody else. They're beginning to have faith in us like other people. They begin to respect us as people and as

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people of music, not only as a category of blues, that don't mean it just as a category music, like any other kind of music in the bar cops Kees talking to BB King and then T bone Walker still

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is even today. You know, I don't know if this happened to you, but I've got certain records where I've played and when I listen to it myself, I say to myself, I think I did better or less than I did anything else. Otherwise, I think this is the

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best I've done. I mean to me, this is what I'd be thinking, you know, and I wonder if the same thing happened to you, it does the same thing happens to me, like starting Monday, and I'm still in love with you, two of my greatest numbers. Rest of

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them, what? Only had 1 million. Million seller was coming, but that's the only one I had. Well, look, out of all the years I've been wanting to do one, a little girl. I've been wanting to do that. I've been one. Why don't you do it? Women, I'll tell you

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what. When you and Lou Jordan, let me see who else, somebody else I know when? Well, I can follow Jimmy pretty well. I just can't sing as well as he can. But I'm talking about things so well. Well, okay, thank you. But let me tell you what I'm trying

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to say when you Louie Jordan, somebody else I'm trying to think about now, when y'all do a number, then it don't make sense for anybody else to try and do it. You understand? Because unless you can find a different way to do it, yeah? Well, like a

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different deed, yeah? Because with a different Hans, when you do it, you you the way you do it is done so good, so superbly. Until, if a guy don't find a different way to do it, then he's in trouble.

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It's gonna be a copy, probably be a bad copy, your your your material. So that's what I'm talking about. This is why I haven't done it yet, because I haven't found out. Because every time I start trying to play it, I want

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to play it, I wind up trying to do it like you did it. Can't get that sound out of your head. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. It's imprinted. You know? It's thing as a puzzle to guitar players. Is it the tone I get? Where do I get the tone from?

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Everybody asking this, where'd you get this tone? This is what we want. A lot of guitar players are very good, but they can't get the tone. And me and boy named Joe Bell and a whole lot of the other guys, I used to come to Houston, I go to other

00:19:01.380 - 00:19:16.320

places, and we would sit down and try to figure it out. What is he doing? How do you do it? Get his licks. Yeah, could never do it. I've never been able to do it. He won't have a way of using ninth chords. Nobody done it even yet, the only one has

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been close to me and playing the bruises, Wayne, Wayne Bennett. Wayne Bennett, but he still don't have the touch. No, I know Wayne. Know him very well now, other things he's good on, but when he try and get next to you, he haven't done it. It just

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ain't happened. I'm sorry it happened. Hans, nobody came up. You have a distinct style that nobody else has nobody, you know, I never really thought of maybe this is just my own poor thinking that's to blame. But I never really thought of T

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bone as being just a blues player. I always thought of his his work in his band, as being well. I thought it was kind of. Jump band, a jazz band. Everything is but I feature the blues mostly

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Sure, I don't know, I wonder this blues band category is relatively recent. I think, actually, I wonder if the same thing happened with Tebow that happened to me, and that is

00:20:15.180 - 00:20:29.120

this, I play the blues because I love to play. I do too. They're there. You know, there are many times I've been around other people, playing other things, and sometimes maybe you journey in with them, or play a little bit, but you never really

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studied or never really want to go into it, because that your heart is not in it. No, mine is not either. Because sometimes you have to play what you feel and plan other things. Even the public won't

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accept it once you get categorized a certain way after, after all these years. It's like he said, like Lonnie Johnson, if he was to walk in and try to play body and soul, so they don't want to hear it. It's just

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same with me playing something on James Brahms, artist, they wouldn't accept it. The only people who get to do something different is the Beatles, because they have so much popularity that people

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expect them to be different, but everybody else gets put down whenever they try and get out of a certain narrow classification. I've observed within a different category. That's what I mean. But let's

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put it this way. Now, of course, for kicks, sometime I love to play other things kicks, but if I'm playing at a place, maybe the band. I've always kept jazz musicians with me all the time. I've noticed from your records, but if I sit down and decide

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that I want to play with the band, somebody will come up to, man, I don't want to hear that play me three o'clock in the morning. I play all night long. Somebody says, when you're going to play stormy man, we going to play some of the old numbers you

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did years ago. That's what they want. You may not, you may not want to play them, but they want I have to play it better. Play it well. That's what I'm getting at. But there's not enough flexibility on the part of the audience. Let

00:22:14.400 - 00:22:29.840

you do what the artist do what he wants to do in every case. But now, here's what happened now, here's the only time that I find that I can do other things, it's just like I go into a new club with new people. Do you understand what

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I'm talking about during the place where new people are not too many of them know about you, right? Or know what you custom. You know what you've been doing all the time now. Then when we run into that, then I can play, put in there what I want. But

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then soon as some of them, people that's been supporting all the years, and they show up, then you've got to go back and do what you got to get back there You old bag. What about playing in the fillmores? Are they pretty open

00:22:54.460 - 00:23:05.040

minded as far as letting you do different things? Oh yeah, Fillmore. No. I mean, the new Fillmore is not the old. I don't know about it because I haven't played Fillmore well. Now,

00:23:05.100 - 00:23:25.220

a whole different scene, about 95% white. Now White completely, but they will go with you to a point. But then every once in a while, one of them will say, I'm off sweet 16. That's what they do. It, but now

00:23:26.000 - 00:23:41.740

they are more of a listening audience. And if you play, if you just play, yeah, they belong with you play, not you can even get four out, as long as you don't get two, right, because they definitely have the association

00:23:41.800 - 00:23:52.600

of jazz is a bad thing altogether. What started me thinking about that was when you mentioned ninth chords, and nobody had a way with ninth chords, because ninth chords are

00:23:52.600 - 00:24:03.780

ready or imply a certain amount of sophistication. It is that a lot of blues bands never get up to because they never get beyond the flat and seven, right? Well, but here's the thing, using ninth chords, which

00:24:03.780 - 00:24:20.040

is a Mort and chord, but T bone has been one of the few people that was able to put them in place to make them want one of the Would you like a menthol one? He's been one of the few people that were able to put them in the blues and make them

00:24:20.040 - 00:24:39.620

sound good. A lot of us haven't been able to do that, like 11th quarter. A lot of us, a lot of people will use those chords and they'll send out a place. Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Well, T bone was one of

00:24:39.620 - 00:24:59.020

the first people, first men that I've heard do that. And the next man I heard was Johnny Moore, the late, now late Johnny Moore used to be with Charles Brown. And for the three blazers, I think they had it going, but they're blues. See now Charles

00:24:59.020 - 00:25:17.400

brown to me. And which I love today, still a great singer, but his blues was a different category, from T bone to mine Muddy Waters or people like that. All three of us, or all four of us, have different styles, but the hardcore blue,

00:25:17.580 - 00:25:40.220

the kind that I'm talking right lightning hopping kind of blue, people, all of us listen to people like T bone, as I said earlier, the first man that I ever heard play electrically and blues like I like it. Still do it today.

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I remember you had Jim Wynn and all those really, was say, suppose we drink up and go upstairs, still downstairs in the bar, you know, like weekends, that's all. They're like.

00:26:01.780 - 00:26:13.020

The thing that I find so annoying is that if you do a certain kind of thing in this country, a certain kind of music, you don't have to do one night stands, and you're almost automatically looked out for it, like if you're a symphony

00:26:13.320 - 00:26:23.780

musician or you're an academy composer, those guys, they don't make a lot of money, but they live comfortably. They don't have to go out on the road. They don't have to put up with all this nonsense, because what they do is classified as art. Well,

00:26:23.840 - 00:26:40.240

what has been with us, though, the blues? Well, I can speak for myself, what's been with us? Our iron has been so small, right? We couldn't get into the places where we could afford to make a decent salary. That's true, like other people, right? I've looked

00:26:40.240 - 00:26:55.780

at someone, I looked at some of the groups. I looked at some of the people in different categories, and I have a license for bookca, and I saw some of their prices. And I couldn't believe,

00:26:56.800 - 00:27:09.900

incredible, isn't it? 10,000 a night. You know what I'm talking about, I just couldn't believe I just walk out and say, Well, forget it. I never believe in especially here in my in California, this is where I

00:27:09.900 - 00:27:35.120

started. Mostly, I think Charles at the office offered me to come to wake what I made was ridiculous. Lower than union scale, yes, even Las Vegas, if you don't get on this trip, the other places,

00:27:36.080 - 00:27:53.500

I just turned down two jobs in Las Vegas for the salary they offer. But there are a lot of other people, like, I know some people, and I could name them, that I asking $20,000 a night and getting it Yes, I know a lot of people that are asking 5000 a

00:27:53.500 - 00:28:07.980

night. A whole lot of people asking, why? Oh, yeah, 10,000 Sure, anybody with one hit record are getting any rock group with one hit record gets 5000 anybody with a rock just like James Brown said, I

00:28:07.980 - 00:28:30.860

listened to him on the radio, on the TV. Rather, it was on show that James Brown special place, and they had a discussion about this thing, you know, and he was telling them about, I already have to work, and how many hit

00:28:30.860 - 00:28:56.020

records he's had, and he can't even get a two week TV show. Sure, here's a man that got one hit record, and he's got 10 weeks or 20 weeks on the TV. He's guessed for Mike, for Mike Douglas now, and it was a big argument about it, and I love

00:28:56.020 - 00:29:05.580

him for it, because it's true. It's just like me or BB Kees even like that. Kees, remember when they canceled Nat King Cole television show, yeah, didn't

00:29:05.580 - 00:29:19.080

last no time. Stanley Davies didn't last no time. Four or five weeks, sure, sure. Well, doesn't it make you awfully resentful when you say that these groups who may not have say half your musical ability look at Tom Jones.

00:29:20.160 - 00:29:31.700

Doesn't that make you awfully mad, bitter Jones, everything he do is something that we've been going 20 years. Well, I could get Yes,

00:29:32.600 - 00:29:43.300

like Mike Bloomfield, you know? I mean, the best thing I can say about Mike, I like Mike quite a bit. I mean, it's a friend of mine, everything. But when I listen to Mike's guitar, all I can say is this just sounds like he's trying to do what you've

00:29:43.300 - 00:30:01.140

already done. He's trying. Yeah, we all together. 780 Yeah. I think I would be terribly mad. Terribly angry and

00:30:01.440 - 00:30:21.320

terribly good. I don't get angry about it. I tell you what, though it hurts me and I get disgusted. I feel hurt because I believe everybody else is to a chance, right? But I hate and it hurts me when have one on us. Would you please?

00:30:24.560 - 00:30:37.400

It hurt us to know that some of the people are playing the same things that we've played, and then later they're the ones that are accepted and willing, right? Yeah, making 10, two and three

00:30:37.400 - 00:30:53.560

and 510, times, like Benny Goodman being the King of Swing. I mean, if you want to go back to that, whereas it was Fletcher Henze running his arrangements. But I know things are changing.

00:30:55.960 - 00:31:12.060

More faith than I do, probably upstairs in BB King's hotel room, coffee King Walker, one that stands out above all the other albums he's ever made, and of course not that didn't have beautiful work

00:31:12.060 - 00:31:31.580

any others. I know that you probably feel the same, like I do when people play my records, but I'm playing through admiration. You know, I don't keep records around people I don't like, don't like to work every record that I have is

00:31:31.580 - 00:31:51.040

because I like the record myself. You know, these here are not bought with the record only. You know, I put on and what I like. And I'll tell you my this is my favorite album, but I'll point

00:31:51.040 - 00:32:43.180

out to you there. What was that? We Oh, yeah, this wasn't coming out. Coming up.

00:32:47.380 - 00:33:14.580

This is the one I'm talking about to kill me. Watch they call it now. Listen to guitar, T bone. This is what I heard. This is what when I heard this, trying to get a clean tone, that's how it came about.

00:33:20.580 - 00:33:37.880

For 20 years, 20 years I take it off one tape, put on another one. I'm not speaking of musically, but I'm talking

00:33:41.900 - 00:33:58.540

about he's always grabbing to what I was saying too, that he wouldn't have been 1942 or something. You wouldn't describe that as a blues band. So a lot of what kids today think of as a blues really,

00:33:59.740 - 00:34:39.800

what was the Jazz of that day? Jack McVeigh and we had rock overs. You put a nickel in there. Some of the guys want to go to another journey or something like that. I wouldn't leave.

00:34:42.740 - 00:35:04.140

I thought, if I tell people, yeah, well, these, I like with Kees. Well, what I did was recorded these. When I got them, put them on my tape recorder then, and this is you. On this cassette tape. I taped it off of my tape recorder on, you know,

00:35:04.140 - 00:35:19.020

my old tape record on of these, and it still sounds good, but I I wanted you to hear it, because if you tell people a lot of things, sometimes they don't really believe you. They think sometimes that you just saying this, I proved to you I wasn't

00:35:19.020 - 00:35:37.760

lying, you know, and I've had them long time, over 20 years, 20 years. Because what happened? I bought these back about, we see, this is 69 I bought them about 49 because before that, I'd had some of them, and they would get broken, you know? And

00:35:37.760 - 00:35:58.000

then I managed to get me some more of them, and I would buy, you know what? This was on a black and white label. And capito bought the masters and put them out on LP. They're all over England. The same thing of capital. Capital bought the

00:35:58.000 - 00:36:13.740

masters. There is a capital album every Capitola. Is a Capitola England, but I know Capitola bought the whole all of it because the man went broke because of the wartime he

00:36:13.740 - 00:36:34.160

couldn't get no no, no nothing press. He couldn't get no material to press the records, so he sold the masters to capito. So now capito must have sold masters to somebody in England, because get the same numbers. LP, now, big over

00:36:34.160 - 00:36:50.860

there, but you know what? What had happened to me? I am I bought the records before, because the bottom, you know, when the fish come up, but we didn't have one, he's wind up victorious, you know. Then, when I left Mississippi and went to

00:36:50.860 - 00:37:13.440

Memphis, they got broke, and while at the radio station, I was able to, you know, like, order records, then that I wanted, for instance, like on my show every day. So anyway, I went to distributor, and I told him what I wanted. So he got me

00:37:13.500 - 00:37:27.200

all these records. And I've gotten kind of hip then, you know, because you can't keep your records. So what I do is get them. Soon as I get a record, tape it right there, you know, even though you keep it, yeah, so lucky, because being at

00:37:27.200 - 00:37:45.400

the radio station, make dubs right there, right there. So I made my tapes, sneak them home, and that's how I managed to keep it. Now, night, I'm coming down to the dance. I

00:37:51.340 - 00:37:57.880

think I break my wife down. She wants to come with me, so we'll be there. What time do it Start? Weldon.