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Unknown: see in the aisles here to ask those questions and so now i'd like to introduce and welcome back to santa cruz Cabrillo Music Festival music director and conductor and our moderator for this evening maranatha

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thanks it's sort of odd isn't it it's hard to are you are you all okay back there it's all right if we sit down we'll find each other right during the evening well it's my pleasure to welcome you here tonight this this piece to me is

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really more than important when i was finishing up my tenure as music director of the eugene symphony they said well for your last concert you can do anything you want i mean and i don't think people say that to a conductor more than once or

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twice in a lifetime because then they always say mahler eight or sunday you know the symphony of 1000 but i said well i i have to do bernstein's mass and of course they didn't know what it was so they weren't frightened at initially but pretty soon

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they got quite terrified and then in denver also they really didn't know what it was so i managed to get them to agree to do it as well and fortunately tom and ellen didn't know what it was either so that's why we're doing it no but it's an

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experience i mean that's that's the most important thing i can say about math it's it's not about doing a piece of music it's about the entire experience and it was important to me to do the piece here in santa cruz because it's it's a bringing

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together of so many forces and so many talents that are available in a community and that to me is what santa cruz has so much of that so much talent so many people that we could get involved i mean the people here the quality of the

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production that's going to be shown here is so high and so unique and we're calling ourselves the small but mighty group and i think that that's the main reason i wanted to do it here to share it with the talent in the community and

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everyone that would come to see this production i thought i'm not sure how many of you really know what this thing is and like like so many people i just sell it without telling anybody what it is but i thought i should tell you a little bit about what

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the mass is it's it's called a theater piece and that's what bernstein called it because i think he really didn't quite know what it was either he was asked by jackie kennedy at the time to write a piece for the opening of the kennedy center

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and it's so interesting because bernstein who i studied with had the great great great honor of studying with for several years right before he died he would always say to me you know every composer he'd like to make big statements and i'm sure everyone

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that knew him on this panel will attest to that he said you know every composer spends his whole life writing the same piece and that's a great statement really because it's quite true every author that you read you know i don't know if you're like me but

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i get obsessed with one author and and it's sort of the same theme even if the subject matter is completely different there are these burning questions that trouble people and they struggle with and they're constantly trying to resolve in some way

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and i think all of bernstein's work is about this concept of faith and what is faith he believed so much in humanity and was so despondent by the way we were ruining the world and ourselves and and war and not coming together and every single

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piece he wrote is about trying to find some resolution in that and when you thought of john f kennedy the first thing that came to mind was he was the first and only catholic president it's just interesting how faith would come into his

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head and so he decides to take this concept of the mass as a structure and create something new out of it and create something old and bring everything together in in the context of the mass and so basically it follows the

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structure of the mass and it has all the parts of the and in particular the latin mass i was brought up roman catholic so i'm i'm very conscious also of that moment when latin stopped how In the church have really, for me, it was a loss of something when

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we went to English. And so at that same time this was happening. I'm not sure what year that was, does anybody know what your it but it was about the same time, I think. And so it's interesting because the Vatican is trying to remake

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itself as well, during the same time that Bernstein is thinking about this project. So basically, it follows the, this sections of the mass, but of course, there are subtexts that go on all the time. Because it's not just a sacred piece at all.

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It's all about the struggle and questioning of the celebrant, who's played incredibly by by Doug Webster, and how he and he, of course, represents every man in his own way. And how do we, you know, we're born and we believe in certain things, and

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then life is a series of struggles really to try to hang on to what we initially believe in. And through all the, the turmoil and obstacles and, and real tragedies that we come up against, how do we hold on to that faith? And so it's really

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the celebrants journey through this question. And so he's confronted by all these different forces, the st. Chorus represents, you know, all all the questioning of him. So that's going on. This has more people in it, then I think will

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be in the audience doesn't know maybe not. We have maybe I'll just tell you about the forces. forces in mass. We have a liturgical choir, which numbers how many Milton? On a good day. 60. And then we have the street chorus, which

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numbers dog how many on a good day. 16. And then we have the it's interesting, because Originally, it was a boy, choir, and now it's a youth choir. I mean, I think that's a great development. And Cheryl, how many do we have? We have 15.

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Then we have dancers, I think we have 10 dancers. And then we have the entire orchestra, which is made up of not just the traditional Symphony Orchestra, we have a rock band of blues band within that the orchestra actually has to be a marching

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band for their first entrance, not the cellos, don't worry, but the brass and the woodwinds. And I have to say that cabrio is really pretty much the first orchestra, the Festival Orchestra, where not only do they want to March, they've all

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found those little liars, you know, classical musicians don't have those things, you know, that you attach to the instrument. They've all been apparently running around trying to find them. And now they want to know what they can wear. So,

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you know, massages, I'm sorry, we don't walk and play, but this organ is just not okay. What what comes with that? And then, what else do we have? You know, you have to find guitar players that not only we were talking about this before we came out

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that not only can play, but can read music. I know that sounds like a joke, but it's not. It's not even just reading music. It's complex music. It's like, it's a few in five parts and five for time for a rock band. I mean, hello, that was never done

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before. So the the music runs the gamut. I mean, it begins with Oh, he also has, of course, tape. And at the time, it was quite phenomenal. And I think quite avant garde to start a performance with. It's a quadrophonic tape, is that what

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it's called? I don't you know, we don't have quadrophonic tape players anymore. But it's comes from four speakers. It's the Curia, which begins. And it's, it's pre recorded. And it's these different wires, different entrances, singing in different

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keys. It's in different rhythms. It's completely disorienting. And I think this is the idea. So right away, we hear this wild thing. And it's interrupted by the celebrant, who strikes a guitar chord, you know, acoustic sounding guitar chord, and sings

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the simple song, which couldn't be more contrasting to what's come before. So right away, you know that this is a piece about the complexities of life versus the simplicity of life. I mean, however you want to frame that paradox. I think right away, you

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you grasp what this piece is about. And then it goes on from there, but musically, it covers everything. It's got. It does have, I'm gonna read you a couple reviews, and then I'll turn it over to everybody. But Bernstein, I happen to know. He

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always told me that he never read the reviews, but strangely, he could quote every single review he ever got. So I thought maybe I'd just say something about the, to me this. And I don't mind putting myself on the line to say that. For me, this

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is one of the great works of the 20th century, certainly. And I think it's more relevant today than the 28 years ago when it was written. But of course, at the time people were very suspect of Bernstein and what he did. So I thought I'd just read

00:10:09.360 - 00:10:25.350

you a couple of excerpts from should I read you the good review first? No, probably the but there was, of course, one good review thing. Thank God. Let's see. Musically I find Bernstein's mass no more than a sacred Westside story. See,

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that's supposed to be a big insult. I think Westside store is one of the greatest pieces ever written. And he goes on and on. It's just silly and it's derivative. The mask must reconcile if it is to be a truly religious experience. And if

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Bernstein cannot reconcile musical traditions, he has nonetheless offered a brilliant effort at reconciliation in other fields, fields, which perhaps better reflect Bernstein's talent. Other than music, Hello, yes. Then the next

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review talks about how the mass, it doesn't work. Yes, there are marvelous moments. Few people were not moved at some point. But as a piece of music, it doesn't work. And the question is why it's filled with gimmicks, superficial

00:11:09.900 - 00:11:24.060

Elementary. unquestionably. Mr. Bernstein is one of the greatest musical talents his country has yet produced. But as a serious composer, he has never found his way. It's too bad. They weren't one go out on a limb for him.

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Anyway, here's one of my heroes, thank goodness. And he talks about the Bernstein. Let me see late, I was surprised by the real originality of the score. Mr. Bernstein appears to have reached maturity as a composer and to have evolved a style that

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is very much his own masses, a rare thing a stunning and absorbing modern composition that can reach the heart of any musical audience. So I agree with him. But it's so interesting, because I think that when we get some distance

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on Bernstein when he isn't present, when I was doing this production in Oregon, actually one of his assistants was there. And he leaned over the pit to me during the dress rehearsal and said, You know, I'm sure lanie wouldn't mind if I told you

00:12:09.060 - 00:12:22.770

this. He said, You know, it's really wonderful to do the mass without Lenny being here. And in some way, I think that frees the piece up because he was such a larger than life character that I think people couldn't be objective about his music when

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he was around. But I thought right now, maybe we'll just turn it over. Tom, maybe you want to speak a little bit about the original production and the history of it. And I'll try to keep everything moving. Right. Thanks.

00:12:36.480 - 00:12:51.150

Will it came out of the Vietnam War, the Pentagon Papers, the American brothers trial, the kings, Bill nine, and Nixon in the White House. So it came in during a very traumatic time in life and, and so the mass actually was was first performed

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in September 8 1971. And for 11 performances that were totally sold out. And after the opening night, we had Congress standing on its feet, applauding for 20 minutes, which was just amazing. But that went on in the next production was done the

00:13:08.640 - 00:13:25.590

following year in 72, again, at these in DC, and then we did it in Lincoln Center, and also the Philadelphia Academy of Music, which is truly dramatic because this whole piece is done through microphones because there is in the original production, there

00:13:25.590 - 00:13:39.960

was no actually live kind of performance, no acoustical things, everything acoustically was miked. It was the first time that the soloist, the 20 solos that we had at the original production did wireless mics, it was the first time they were

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ever used. And we had to do a system of a bean and so that we could only use 10 at a time. And occasionally we got in taxi cab drivers out in the street and a few other things that came into it. Because it was really complex. But I think the

00:13:52.710 - 00:14:06.690

Philadelphia Academy music was the worst place because that that hole was designed like a violin where the sound comes off the stage into a pit, and under everyone's seat was a hole. So the sound would come up in this hole, well, in order to control

00:14:06.690 - 00:14:24.570

it through microphones was impossible. So that was that was a horrible experience. But then Lincoln Center, we did it in July of 72. And then I did it again at the Mark Taper Forum in 73. And then move on to Hawaii where I did the mass over in

00:14:24.600 - 00:14:43.740

there and rewrote it. But that's just to show you that technical complexities. The original had the 60 voice choir, the 40 voice children's chorus 20 so it was two rock bands, 120 piece orchestra, the Alvin Ailey dancers, and that and the sound

00:14:43.740 - 00:14:59.700

requirements were insane. They were like 205 microphones and 40 speakers and acquire phonics and so everything at that time we had to go through this quadrophonic board input board and go out through that. And so I ended I started out as I was

00:14:59.730 - 00:15:11.220

reading Stage Manager for the trail, the Catonsville nine and I was touring at around the United States. And Gordon Davidson was the director for the mass. And he asked me to come and help him with it. And I said, No, Gordon, I'm doing the

00:15:11.220 - 00:15:23.790

drills against wall nine, I need to stop the war in Vietnam. And he said, Well, I'll stop you right here. If you don't come to the mat, you're not doing any of this stuff. So I went out not knowing what I was going to do with the mass. And so I ended up

00:15:23.790 - 00:15:38.160

as Lenny's assistant because it all had to come through the soundboard that I was controlling. So I actually was the conductor of sound for the the original mass. What Martin was spoken about faith, and that was really what the whole thing

00:15:38.160 - 00:15:55.140

was based on his crisis of faith in the principle of crisis in our century of faith. And Lenny's notes were like, the love of brotherhood must come of among us, even at times of great violence and mistrust. And the subtext for the mass

00:15:55.170 - 00:16:12.150

simultaneously and concurrently consists of what one might be going on in one's mind or anyone else's mind during the mass. So he was very much into that. And it's the whole spirit of the mass at that time, was a spirit of love and joy, and passion and

00:16:12.150 - 00:16:26.100

excitement. And we maybe got three hours sleep at night, because after we would do a rehearsal, we'd go over to scripters house where we had two grand pianos and Norman would sit in one lending theater and they'd have dual off Beethoven

00:16:26.100 - 00:16:38.370

for three or four hours an evening from two to four o'clock in the morning, with a half of the cast all this a little solos are there, and then we'd go out singing and dancing down the streets of Georgetown. So it was, it was very eye catching.

00:16:38.820 - 00:16:52.080

So basically, those were those the starts of it. I think that also maybe people that didn't know Bernstein, or even if you just saw him on TV or something, I think you probably get the feeling that this is almost a microcosm of

00:16:52.080 - 00:17:07.380

who Bernstein was as a person he was able to, I read, once in, I think it was in the times, they listed the top 10 orchestras in the world. And the first orchestra that was listed was any orchestra that Leonard Bernstein is conducting. I

00:17:07.380 - 00:17:25.020

thought, that is a tribute. You know, that's the top orchestra in the world of at the moment. And he had the ability to, to bring people together in a way that no other human being I've ever met had. And I think that was the sort of the, the

00:17:25.020 - 00:17:37.740

microcosm of this whole experience. And what ends up happening is that we have so many people working on the production that it takes on another it's like a parallel universe that's going on, do you know and, and that becomes an

00:17:37.740 - 00:17:52.380

experience unto itself as well. So there are all these incredible connecting things that happen around this particular piece. But Tom and I were speaking, we're trying to figure out how many times since it was written 2028 years ago,

00:17:52.530 - 00:18:02.730

has it been performed, and you think no more no more than 20 times maybe? Probably about that, because 20 times worldwide, because of the complexity of it.

00:18:02.970 - 00:18:17.100

But of course, now we have better, it's easier, the electronics of it are far more manageable. Also, the parts that the musicians read off of, were a disaster. You know, they were from the original production. Milton, they'll speak to that.

00:18:17.340 - 00:18:27.030

And they were, you know, they just made changes, like a Broadway show, you know, that came through and, okay, let's change the key of this, you know, just scratching it out. And so those were, that's what the parts look like,

00:18:27.420 - 00:18:38.880

what it wasn't finished when we started rehearsing. Yeah. So that's two thirds of the mass was finished, was written. And we were going on the two thirds. And in the meantime, learning was right in and out in the evening, shipping it off to New

00:18:38.880 - 00:18:47.820

York, and it was coming down the next day, with the arrangements and all So, but the Kennedy Center wasn't finished, either. It was done and the piece wasn't.

00:18:48.630 - 00:19:00.870

One day, Ted and john kennedy came to see that the complex, and Lenny said, I don't know where anything is take them around. So I have happened to scout out the place. So I knew where all the tunnels were. So I could get around, but none of

00:19:00.870 - 00:19:11.160

the building was complete at that time. So it was down to the wire. So Milton, maybe do you want to talk about that? Because Milton did the first performance on the west coast.

00:19:11.760 - 00:19:32.670

The California premiere of it. Yes, we did it in 1974. But actually in 1972. Late, choreographer by the name of Norbert v. Zack and I were employed at the band festival in Canada. And Bernstein had given us permission to do the first

00:19:32.670 - 00:19:51.630

out of country performance of it there in Canada. And the problem was that we had a hall that seated 1000 people, and it's really designed for a larger space. And then there was the Mark Taper Forum performance of it, which was 700 Well, how many

00:19:51.630 - 00:20:10.650

is that 787 50 so you have a small version of something like 60 and so musicians and The rest of the core, the cast was exactly the same doing that, that particular thing. So he said, Well, geez, you know, it would be nice to have a moderate

00:20:10.860 - 00:20:25.080

version of it too. So he says, I will arrange it for you. And imagine that Leonard Bernstein's arrange mass for us. So we thought that was great. Well, it turned out he had something he was doing, I can't remember now, but he was unable to finish it.

00:20:25.080 - 00:20:42.960

So we were unable to do it there. But we decided after we substituted something for Canada, we decided we would do it where I was teaching, which is University of California in Berkeley, in 1974, which has, of course, its alibaug auditorium,

00:20:42.960 - 00:21:03.480

which seats 2000. And, you know, the whole thing was a brand new Hall at that time, actually. So we set out to do it there. Well, it was a little bit. He can't begin to describe the difficulties of getting people to accept the fact that you want

00:21:03.480 - 00:21:20.550

to do something like the Bernstein mess just doing it. I was an assistant conducted with the Oakland Symphony at the time on the Herald Farben. And I my contract read that any thing that I did with pickup orchestra, I had to offer it to

00:21:20.550 - 00:21:37.830

the Oakland Symphony first. So we had the Oakland Symphony, but the problem was that we had a small budget there at UC Berkeley, this was a special project of the chancellor. And we did it for a while our budget was $50,000. But of course, we

00:21:37.830 - 00:21:50.940

had all of the other facilities. And we had a lot of things there that we could use. In our budget here. I was also on the board of directors of spring Opera

00:21:50.940 - 00:22:10.110

Theatre of the San Francisco Opera Company. And so we were able to use a Ming Cho Lee set, and which is he was one of the premier designers of the day. And we had used that set that we use for mass for production of St. Matthew Passion, actually,

00:22:10.650 - 00:22:26.310

in San Francisco. So anyway, we have this set. And we had finally we had a symphony. But the problem was, again, I, one of my attorneys was the president of the Union. So when I went to him to ask for a smaller budget for the

00:22:26.310 - 00:22:42.450

orchestra, he agreed. And some of the first chair players wouldn't play for that. So we had to go all over getting players. And then of course, the same thing. With the guitar players. We had to get studio players from LA and it was just

00:22:42.540 - 00:23:00.270

very strange. But anyway, we did it. And again, no one believed it was going to work. I did it on Memorial Day weekend. And they said, Why are you doing this? People didn't do things on Memorial Day weekend in those days. So I said, well, it's

00:23:00.270 - 00:23:18.810

available. And the hall is available enough time. So we'll do it then. And even the hall manager didn't believe it was going to work. So the first evening, the first performance, there we were, and there the audience was outside trying to

00:23:18.810 - 00:23:34.770

get in, they didn't have enough people to get the audience into place. So we didn't get them all in and we have to perform with the house lesson for and my brother happened to be in town. So I stayed with him that night before I went home. And I was

00:23:34.770 - 00:23:53.730

driving home the next day, and I was listening to kcbs and David mackel Hatton was talking to the late Stephen bathory, about Berkeley's production of mass. And it was a rave review. And all that day, Al Hart, who was an announcer for kcbs would come

00:23:53.730 - 00:24:10.350

on and say you have to move mountains if you need to, but go to the production of Bernstein's mass at Berkeley. According to Steven Belfry, it was the best thing beside of well, you know how they say. But anyways, so we actually turned away we had

00:24:10.350 - 00:24:27.900

three more performances, we turned away 500 people a night for those three performances. The excitement of this work, when you're when you're in the hall is more than stunning. And I must say from the performance point of view, it is it is

00:24:27.900 - 00:24:42.540

breathtaking to be a part of something of this nature. And if you're just in for a big treat, if you're coming to it, I can that's all I can say about that. Yeah. That's that I would I would reiterate that to Milton.

00:24:43.410 - 00:25:02.700

The I think maybe now we're talking a little bit more about the the content of the mass to him. What, what happens and I'll let Doug speak to that. It's hard to explain exactly, but it's one of the few pieces where You can go from these

00:25:02.700 - 00:25:15.750

meditations, which are really built on Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. That was that was one of Bernstein's favorite pieces. Because, of course, that deals with the last moment, it's all about the Brotherhood of mankind. And so he basis, these

00:25:15.750 - 00:25:33.720

meditations, which are really the moments of reflection, musical reflection, where nothing happens on stage, except just the orchestra plays. And they're extremely. They're extremely advanced musical musically. And you go from that

00:25:33.720 - 00:25:52.890

to this moment in the unuse day, where the choir just sort of breaks out of what they're doing the big chorus, and they start singing this Dona no BS, patch him. And it's this rocking six, eight thing, I don't know, no BS, no BS part. And it goes on

00:25:52.890 - 00:26:03.810

and on and repeats and repeats just like a rock song, you know, gets in this groove, and then the soloists start going crazy, you know, and what, what are the words they say? I mean, the last one is,

00:26:06.360 - 00:26:22.980

of course, I've never sung those words. I'm always usually writing upstage. It's see it down on our knees, we're not playing praying. We're not asking you please, we're just saying, Give us peace now, and

00:26:22.980 - 00:26:39.240

we don't mean later. Don't forget you will once I'll create a doughnut and obese Don't I know these and it goes. The guitar star taking these reps, you know, it's like completely, it's wild. I mean, you can just it's, it's really

00:26:39.660 - 00:26:57.210

let loose that kind of experience. And to have this range. Maybe I'll let Doug speak because really, it's it's Doug's journey. And this production in particular is, and when I spoke to Doug about coming out to Cumbria and doing the role of

00:26:57.210 - 00:27:11.790

the celebrant, he said, Well, you know, I, I really would like to direct the production to because I felt, I have to say that I think it's almost as though the roll were written for a dog, I mean, the way he understands it and grasp it, and

00:27:11.790 - 00:27:27.270

I guess, maybe I'm speaking for you, but something's been missing in the other productions that he wanted to bring to this production. So not only is he the main protagonists, the lead role, very demanding role, he's also directing the production.

00:27:27.300 - 00:27:41.790

And so I think it reflects his feelings about it. And also, Doug, maybe speak to but when you tell them also about the cathartic moment, you know, the things get broken, especially about the the way Bernstein uses language through that, because

00:27:41.790 - 00:27:57.300

it's an amazing moment. Couple things happened when I got the phone call from Elon, I recently bought a cell phone because I spend so much time on the on the road, I thought my office is gonna be basically in

00:27:57.300 - 00:28:12.510

my pocket. And the phone rang and I was in on 63rd Street waiting to pick up my son at the y. And she said, Hi, this is Ellen from Cumbria and we talked to Marin, and we'd like to ask you to direct the show. And I looked across the street at the

00:28:12.510 - 00:28:33.750

emberson office, which amberson Incorporated, Amber, Amber in German is Bernstein. It's his, his office, his corporate office. And I looked across the street, and I thought, okay, now what I feel like, I feel like a kid in high school who's come

00:28:33.750 - 00:28:50.250

across the keys to the high school. I feel like I've suddenly got all this opportunity. And none of I'm not worthy, but I got the key. So let's go check it out. What Marian said is true that, as an actor, you're always feeling

00:28:50.250 - 00:29:06.060

that you're not getting enough direction. To productions, I've done staged I've done three versions of three productions of it staged and three performances of it in concert. And I always wanted more from the director I want I wanted to say, Well, what

00:29:06.060 - 00:29:22.080

do I do here? What comes next? I've learned the words. I've learned the blocking, but I need a little little help. Because this piece is so heavy and there's so much to it. But nobody else knew it. Everybody who's done the production has

00:29:22.080 - 00:29:37.950

just learned it. Or they they did it. You know they saw it once. So I didn't have a lot of people to hit up for information. Even when I I I took it to Alan Titus, who was the first celebrant and he was doing the Beethoven nine in

00:29:37.950 - 00:29:50.040

Indianapolis and I found out he was there and I called the symphony I called his hotel. And I was in Bloomington at the time and he said yeah, sure, come on up. And he gave me all of the information of what Bernstein light because here I'm going to

00:29:50.040 - 00:30:04.110

be trucked into Tanglewood for, for the 70th birthday celebration, not meeting Bernstein before the show, and yet doing the show for him. I said well What really ticked him off about the show? What did he not like you doing? Because I

00:30:04.110 - 00:30:21.030

didn't want to go to his party and do the one thing that he hated. So I've still got, I've got Alan's marks all over my score, like five L's before the word louder. He said, I don't he doesn't. Arnstein hated out. He said he wanted louder. So it's

00:30:21.030 - 00:30:34.800

all picky and stuff, but it didn't get into the soul of the piece. And little by little as I've done the show, as I've lived through the role of the celebrant, I've come across little things. I said, Oh, that's what that means. And

00:30:34.800 - 00:30:48.810

likewise, in the street course, I could see how it related. So I would talk to the street course. And Marin allowed me to cast the show in Denver, which was the last stage performance we did. So I got to pick all of the singers I was going to be

00:30:48.810 - 00:31:03.090

working with. And I could talk to him about it. And before the director came in, I had a day with them just to talk about their relationship with each other and the celebrant and what they were, what they were going through in this production. I

00:31:03.090 - 00:31:17.010

was really, and it could be visible to you or could not be visible to you. But the but the point I was making was that I wanted everybody in the cast to have a journey. All the other productions I've been involved with was all about the journey

00:31:17.010 - 00:31:30.090

of the celebrant, and everybody else in the street course we're we're like a school of fish, they they turn going back and forth and being acting like a Greek chorus commenting on things but not having their own journey. So the way of cast at

00:31:30.090 - 00:31:42.510

this time, the way we've we've directed some of it. And I say we because I'm asking the street course for their help and saying, Well, what do you want to do here? What do you feel like, I leave open sections in here, I'm like an actor, saying,

00:31:42.540 - 00:31:57.870

Okay, guys, pick your moment, and then go with it. If it's too much, I'll tell you. And it's what I wanted. As an actor, I wanted the director to say, you know, I trust you, as opposed to the typical opera direction where they say, okay, you, you,

00:31:57.870 - 00:32:11.940

you and you, I need you to be here, here, here, here, here, here, get there. And it doesn't give you it doesn't give you any source. It doesn't give me any life as a character. So I've got some great performers, who are going to be having their own

00:32:11.940 - 00:32:24.330

journeys and their own takes on what's going on and their own ideas of mass, and at different points in the show as far as what they're feeling. And like I said, you may not see it, but it'll be there from that

00:32:24.330 - 00:32:37.230

end. And that's what makes it happen for the actors on stage. And that's why they are each going through as individuals through their own journeys. And we've talked about faith. And we've talked about how this piece relates to our own faith.

00:32:37.470 - 00:32:54.210

And when you connect to that, then you can then you can connect it to an audience. And one of the great things about performing on this particular stage, other than the fact that that Marin conducts it like nobody else that nobody else

00:32:54.210 - 00:33:13.200

does. spite of that, yeah, thank you. But the fact that it's so well cared for musically. And you can see behind us, there's this, there's this landscape here that

00:33:13.200 - 00:33:31.500

we get to live in, which is such a joy, as a performer, to have a place a platform on which to perform that not only is comfortable, but it adds to our our story, it adds to our show, we're not working against it in any way. And that's the joy of

00:33:31.500 - 00:33:48.120

this particular production. Whereas Milton knows where the show comes from. And he's had 20 years to think about it. And he's brought that to the street course and everyone he's worked with Matthew is brilliant in the fact that he knows how he wants,

00:33:48.150 - 00:34:03.870

how he wants to look to happen. And the fact that he's not only the scenic designer, he's also the lighting designer, he knows how to light his own design to work to our best advantage. Yeah, so maybe we should talk about let Matthew speak a little

00:34:03.870 - 00:34:22.140

bit to the, to the space and and how this came about. I saw some of the lighting I walked in the other day and it's just stunning. I mean, you're just transported and and in some ways having a space like this, which is kind of a raw space, you

00:34:22.140 - 00:34:35.220

know, is is an advantage don't because you can Dutch Vantage is an advantage. Everything's an opportunity, Matthew. Well, I think that I'm probably the only one in this table who's

00:34:35.220 - 00:34:50.790

never done the math before. You haven't either. Okay, but everybody else here comes with a lot more experience and background in history and knowing the piece much more than I did or do and I think that the Cabrillo Music Festival took a

00:34:50.790 - 00:35:06.030

good account from Mira and by you know, because when I was first invited, they called me and said, oh, we're doing this. We're doing this a little bit called the mass Would you be interested? And I, of course, I'd heard about it and, you

00:35:06.030 - 00:35:19.200

know, vaguely, and had said, Well, sure, you know, I would, you know, love to be involved in it, perhaps we could, you know, meet and talk about it. And so I came down, and they, the first thing they did was they brought me over here, and we walked in

00:35:19.200 - 00:35:39.600

the door, I said, and this is where we're doing it. And I said, Oh, okay, these, this presents certain challenges. And, you know, and so, and as you can see, and we really tried to transform the space and make it make it much more, you know,

00:35:40.560 - 00:35:58.560

trying to try to make it more of a spectacle a little bit more exciting to be, and we've even laid out the red carpet, as you can see. And so, when I, when I first started talking to Doug was, which was my first conversations about the piece,

00:35:58.560 - 00:36:14.460

and, you know, working through the designs of it, and Doug as, as he did with his actors gave me a lot of latitude, he was very trusting of me of that, even though he's never seen my work, or we never met, which was, which was amazing, and

00:36:14.580 - 00:36:27.540

which was very nice. Sometimes, you get directors that are very particular, and they really want this and this and this, and this, which doesn't give you a lot of creative, you know, environment to work within. But Doug was very, he was very clear

00:36:27.540 - 00:36:47.040

about what the piece meant to him and the direction that he wanted to take it in terms of the directing, and having talked with him about the, his ideas based on Bernstein's ideas, and the idea of spirituality and the loss of faith, and how do we

00:36:47.040 - 00:37:06.570

then transform a space like this, to reflect some of those ideas and still allow for 200 people on stage, you know, we have to, we had certain challenges to, to meet in that regard. And, and, you know, myself as an artist, working

00:37:06.570 - 00:37:21.390

with different materials and things in the past, you know, started started thinking about what what this piece was, I listened to the music, I talked to Doug, and, you know, we started develop some ideas about what we thought this environment

00:37:21.390 - 00:37:46.230

should be, and how it should transform over the, the length of the show, and how, you know, it engages. And so what's my thought, we decided that, you know, we wanted to create a church like atmosphere for the peace, but not really create,

00:37:46.620 - 00:37:59.160

you know, we didn't want it to be a church, and we didn't want symbols of crosses, and we didn't want that kind of stuff, we didn't feel like that was the direction in which to take it and talking to him about, you know, the concepts of the piece

00:37:59.160 - 00:38:18.120

and thinking about materials and thinking about not recreating, you know, a 70s thing, we really wanted to bring it to the future and or to the presentation say, and, you know, work with the, you know, the idea that this piece is not set in any

00:38:18.120 - 00:38:38.220

particular time period, it trends, you know, transports transcends any particular period of time. And, you know, my thoughts and my ideas led me into these materials, which are, you know, at once very, very plush and light absorbing, and

00:38:38.220 - 00:38:50.700

yet there are materials which are very reflective, and there are materials, which are very translucent, and there, and then it becomes a little more fractured. And as you will see if you come to see the show, things change throughout the

00:38:50.700 - 00:39:10.560

piece with the lighting as well. And, and for me, that was sort of where I sort of took the, the ideas of the loss of faith and spirituality and tried to, you know, try to see those on a much more broader scope than just the Catholic Church. I think that's

00:39:10.560 - 00:39:25.980

a jumping off point. I think that's a framework that that Bernstein use for, you know, for all of us to sort of be involved in our spirituality or our faith and to, to find it or to lose it and to come back to it. So

00:39:26.640 - 00:39:41.220

I don't know. Do you want to describe it or do we not want to give anything away? I mean, will happen? I don't think we want to Okay. Well, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't. There's no, there's no one who's coming. There's anyone who was

00:39:41.220 - 00:40:04.740

not coming to the show. You can talk to Matthew later. So, you know, it's something that you just said, reminded me of this. The priest named. Father Donner actually wrote little article it's called thoughts on bernstein's mass and

00:40:04.740 - 00:40:22.620

at the end to sum it up he says if we were to suggest by a sub sub title what bernstein's attempt in mass really is we could say that it is the desire to make clear the faith of the atheist which i think is really wonderful and i think that that

00:40:22.620 - 00:40:43.470

is truly what he was looking for really the faith of just his belief in in in humanity and i think now that we have distance from the events that propelled him into it the vietnam war the the black panthers all the stuff that he was so involved in i

00:40:43.470 - 00:41:02.010

think it takes on more of a universality now and i especially think with this kind of set which is not specific to the the church i think it really has a broader scope for me anyway just just looking at what you've done

00:41:02.160 - 00:41:20.910

i'm not sure what the original actually the original designs of the of the original shows were or the original show was i intentionally didn't look at that because i didn't want to be influenced by that in any way i didn't want to so i just you

00:41:20.910 - 00:41:37.380

know we really i really wanted to come out to it come into it fresh and to really you know try to do my thing which is much more of today sort of you know more of a president more of a modern design ideal ideal

00:41:37.410 - 00:41:52.710

well that's great and maybe just at this point sure we'll talk a second about putting together the the youth choir i mean one of the tricky things also is that there's a boy soprano who really i think in some way represents the the celebrant at

00:41:52.710 - 00:42:09.000

an earlier stage or maybe a more advanced stage in life depending on how you look at it you know the innocence and and that that purity of youth and just trying to cast i know it's it's very tricky to cast a voice soprano you have to have lots of things

00:42:09.000 - 00:42:26.820

can happen including you know sudden changes in voice and bee stings or whatever lots of things can happen so we have three voice sopranos you triple cast it that's right and one of the boys has grown a foot since we cast

00:42:27.930 - 00:42:44.460

and but they're they're fabulous and i just wanted to say that i think that the real mark of great music is the degree to which it changes your life as the 17 year old college freshmen i got to be maria and westside story and that really changed my

00:42:44.460 - 00:42:59.760

life having been raised in the the farm country of southwestern pennsylvania i'd never had to grapple with some of those ideas and and recently i was cleaning out my garage and found all the notes that i had written about how i was responding to this

00:42:59.790 - 00:43:16.620

great great work of art and we were in rehearsal with the children's chorus the youth choir and we you know they're they're very astute musicians we do the solfege we do counting of all the rhythms everybody has to sing their part one on a part

00:43:16.650 - 00:43:32.370

and and they're very complex and the kids are very meticulous and wonderful and one day they came bursting into rehearsal and they said did you see the bernstein special on tv last night and it just so happened that i had it was like my one night free the

00:43:32.370 - 00:43:50.790

whole semester and it was fabulous and it talked about how at the end of his life he had to make choices about composition conducting and and or whether to bring education to the forefront of his life and to try to draw people into new way of thinking

00:43:50.790 - 00:44:08.010

about music and that's what he chose and they the kids were just waxing eloquent about how you know how exciting it was and how great his music was and how thrilled they were to be able to do this mass and i was just struck at that moment that it

00:44:08.010 - 00:44:30.990

had worked that his mission had been completed and you know if if one author writes the same novel over and over again we all work through the same themes and we all have the same path then that path through his music was completed and we'll see fruit in

00:44:30.990 - 00:44:41.220

the works of these children and they are brilliant i'm very proud to be working with them it's been really exciting you're gonna love it well that's beautiful at the

00:44:44.520 - 00:44:59.430

yes quite quite true the i thought maybe we'll open it up for questions that you might have i i just thought i'd also mentioned something about bernstein which you probably know but i know just from a personal interaction with him

00:44:59.430 - 00:45:17.520

that He was crazy about language. He actually travelled with the definitive Oxford dictionary. And I was very glad I didn't have to carry any of his luggage. He also carried the complete works of Shakespeare wherever he went in the world.

00:45:17.550 - 00:45:36.510

And His goal was to find errors in the dictionary. And he did find many. And he'd be in a very good mood whenever he found one of those. And he, he just loved word games. I mean, word games isn't the word for it. I mean, you know, these are, these are

00:45:36.540 - 00:45:53.760

beyond beyond games. And he spoke many, many languages. And I had a chance to travel with him to Japan. And even though he didn't know a word of Japanese, I could swear he was speaking Japanese half the time. He liked to try. He didn't mind making a

00:45:53.760 - 00:46:11.640

fool of himself ever. And he was curious, always about how language developed. I don't know if any of you ever read or saw there on videotape. Now, these lectures he did at Harvard, on linguistics, their sheer genius, the way, you know, what is the

00:46:11.640 - 00:46:25.650

first thing that happens with a child that they sing? And what do they sing? They sing a certain interval, and how does that, you know, just the development of language and how it relates to music. But in this particular piece, I think he

00:46:25.650 - 00:46:42.750

brings together all of these ideas about language. And I know he worked with Stephen Schwartz on the lyrics but i think i think it's probably pretty safe to say that a lot of the word games that go on and they're not games really but the the

00:46:42.750 - 00:47:00.570

relationship of words. Is is Lenny's through and through and I wanted to mention the one more than the big moment in the piece the the climax of the work when the celebrant really has a complete breakdown. And he he's, it's called things get broken.

00:47:01.140 - 00:47:18.090

It's and the words what happens is Doug now you know the words actually, but he he goes through every language that he's explored in the piece. He also goes through every musical theme that he's had in the piece, everything